Hoplite - History of the word

[Paralus]

I read it as "they" being the opposing hoplites: "they engaged with swords" and "their bodies (the same "they")were all locked with one another" giving and receiving sword wounds. But we will disagree. Certainly, though, Pelopidas did not enter the rear of his phalanx and move to the front - with his shield - if his men were "locked together". These were just two conflicts that I dragged from memory. I should look at a few more.

As to long battles not implying othismos, I'd point out that all long boxing matches involve extended clinches. Matches where they dance around each other are quicker as the winded opponent makes mistakes. You can be in othismos far longer than you can actively sword fight.

I'm not so certain such "clinches" were the order of the day when another was trying to kill you rather than snot you! As well, boxing matches involve twelve timed rounds with time outs. As to othismos, seems you have not ever packed a rugby scrum. I can readily assure you that this is a physically draining exercise and is the reason that rugby forwards are accorded "rest" periods in rugby games (injury time, kicks, lineouts and plain giving the ball to the backs to play with!). Othismos or plain shoving (as in rugby) was likely called for as a tactic and was not intended to last terribly long.

Thucydides describes the Spartans as advancing to battle in a deliberate and measured beat to flutes (Mantinea 418).Seemingly they were not intending othismos at the battle's opening.

A final comment is that I would be careful with Diodorus's descriptions for Mantinea and the battles of that period. His source, Ephorus, is surely a poor tactical writer.

I don't think Ephorus that bad. Indeed, were it not for him the battle of Mantinea (362) would be largely lost to us as Xenophon, his Peloponnesian idyll shattered by Thebes, does not have the heart to do it justice. Having described the battle lines he rounds off the action in a meloncholy few sentences. If Ephorus has a problem it is in the rose coloured glasses that he applies to Thebes.

[PMBardunias]

As to othismos, seems you have not ever packed a rugby scrum. I can readily assure you that this is a physically draining exercise and is the reason that rugby forwards are accorded "rest" periods in rugby games (injury time, kicks, lineouts and plain giving the ball to the backs to play with!). Othismos or plain shoving (as in rugby) was likely called for as a tactic and was not intended to last terribly long.

Ah, there's the rub. You are imagining a rugby scrum as othismos and this is most surely not correct. As you have read from me before, this is a crowd of hoplites packed belly to back- a very different animal. I have been in such crowds for over an hour and there are recorded instances where extreme forces were generated over much longer periods. In these condition many pass out and some die. More would die were it not for the fact that a normal "crowd" is not trying to apply force forwards and so the force comes and goes in waves.

Thucydides describes the Spartans as advancing to battle in a deliberate and measured beat to flutes (Mantinea 418).Seemingly they were not intending othismos at the battle's opening.

Abandon the notion that a long, fast charge is beneficial to othismos. This is folly, as is the whole notion of the sideways pushing othismos with the shoulder in the shield. Frankly, those who came up with this surely have very little knowledge of physics, so I can't fault them, but it has lead to vulnerabilities in the theory that give ammo to those who think othismos figurative. The force generated by running individuals colliding is nothing compared the the sustained push of 8 or even fewer ranks. Spartans in their orderly march would have been able to enter othismos more rapidly that any other force, because they would already be in relative close ordered ranks and not arriving in some disorder from a charge. Rather than showing no intention of othismos, I believe this goes towards the Spartans being masters of this phase of battle, probably trying to force their foes quickly through spear-play and into it rapidly and before they are ready. This is why they are only brought low by the Thebans who A) can move swiftly in to tight ranks because of the cutting edge of the Sacred band and B) back up their othismos with some 50 ranks of men! Getting your foe into othismos also makes outflanking them much easier. Any good "tricksy' Spartan would rather outflank you than face the meat-grinder of othismos even if they had the upper hand.

[Paralus]

This is why they are only brought low by the Thebans who A) can move swiftly in to tight ranks because of the cutting edge of the Sacred band and B) back up their othismos with some 50 ranks of men! Getting your foe into othismos also makes outflanking them much easier. Any good "tricksy' Spartan would rather outflank you than face the meat-grinder of othismos even if they had the upper hand.

A "cutting edge". Interesting. The Sacred band likely was the point of that Theban wedge. Imagine a lambada with a wide base and a far longer right "leg" . The Sacred Band is the solid point and the Theban phalanx echelons away to the left ("fifty shields deep") and to the right - all the way back to the allies unengaged and watching. At the important moment Pelopidas, realising the moment might be lost, charges the Spartan left as it is disarray and the rest of the wedge follows as quickly as it can.

Indeed the Spartans were looking to flank the Thebans at Leuktra and this is precisely what they were doingg at Mantinea - where they succeeded. I don't think they were looking to othisnos in that latter - they seemed set on extending, flanking and wheeling to their left to take the enemy in their sides. Something they acheived absolutely.

As to pushing with shoulders, Arrian (Tact. 16.13) claims that infantry pushed with their shoulders and sides.

[PMBardunias]

A "cutting edge". Interesting. The Sacred band likely was the point of that Theban wedge.

This was surely not a wedge. The term used, embolon, is used in the context of a ship's ram and the passage should be read as likening the utilization of the formation to a ship ramming. It also points out why you have to be careful extending hellenistic tactical concepts back in time. This is not my idea, but well argued by Buckler:

Epameinondas and the "Embolon"
John Buckler
Phoenix, Vol. 39, No. 2 (Summer, 1985), pp. 134-143

in response to Devines problematic description of a wedge:

EMBO?ON: A Study in Tactical Terminology
A. M. Devine
Phoenix, Vol. 37, No. 3 (Autumn, 1983), pp. 201-217

The right flank of a phalanx was vulnerable due to the difficulties with covering that side with the aspis. In forming a wedge you would be showing many "Right flanks" to your enemy.

As to pushing with shoulders, Arrian (Tact. 16.13) claims that infantry pushed with their shoulders and sides.

In short, Arrian never saw a hoplite phalanx. Infantry in his day surely did push with the side and the shoulder- the knee as well- but this does not mean that hoplites did. The fulcum of his day was very different from a phalanx and the shields were not aspides. True othismos is also unlikely in Arrian's day.

[Paralus]

Yes, I have both papers. Devine actually makes an argument for the wedge at Gaugamela. Here he is surely on much more solid ground as it is clear that Alexander could (and did) make a wedge of his forces (Arrian 1.6 ff). Arrian describes Alexander as arranging "his wedge" with the cavalry (Companion) "all of the infantry in this sector of the line" (the hypaspists, Agrianes). Even with an aspis the infantry, refused back to the left, is exposing itself in some fashion. Sarisa-armed troops are not exactly at that disadvantage though due to the reach of the weapon.

Devine errs, though, with his view that Eumenes used the same tactic (in reverse, that is on the left) at Gabiene. That is taking the text - "engaged the entire opposing phalanx", which I see as hyperbole for leading the assault - too far. The Silver Shields hardly took on the entire enemy array in a wedge. If that were the plan it will have been performed - a la Alexander - with the cavalry. Eumenes well knew that he confronted the enemy's strength (their right wing) and advantage (cavalry) and this was likely to be a bloody, drawn out confrontation. In that respect he can hardly have expected his infantry to form an unprotectd wedge and "roll right". The fact that Piethon rides to the unprotected infantry does not necessarily have to mean []iflank[/i]. Evidently their rear, as they are heavily engaged, is just as vulnerable.

[Paullus Scipio]

It is a mistake to take "wedge" too literally in ancient writers accounts, for whilst it can be a literally true description of, say, a cavalry formation such as Alexander's, it is also used to describe pretty much any formation deeper than it is long.....what modern writers might render as "column" even though in many cases "column" is not literally true either, which may confuse future historians .... D lol: :lol:

Much ink has been used up by various writers who fail to grasp this point..... :roll:

[Paralus]

It is a mistake to take "wedge" too literally in ancient writers accounts, for whilst it can be a literally true description of, say, a cavalry formation such as Alexander's, it is also used to describe pretty much any formation deeper than it is long.....

I'd agree with the caveat that I do think that Alexander did form a wegde of sorts - in the more literal sense - at Gaugamela. The cavalry being the apex and the hypaspists one side down to the brigade of Koinos. The right wing was already laid back by the Persian assault and so, one would think, any assualt by the companion cavalry and a line refused to the left would resemble something triangular. The effect was rather frightening if we believe Arrian:

[...] but when the Macedonian cavalry, commanded by Alexander himself, pressed on vigorously, thrusting themselves against the Persians and striking their faces with their spears, and when the Macedonian phalanx in dense array and bristling with long pikes had also made an attack upon them, all things together appeared full of terror to Darius...

This would be his "wedge" driving into and through the Persian array.