Stirrup discussion (vague)

[recondicom]

Copy Paired Stirrups
The first evidence of paired riding stirrups is on a pottery horse in a tomb near Nanjing dating to 322 A.D,[2] and Chinese literature makes regular reference to the metal stirrup from 447 A.D.[4] These stirrups began in the 4th century as a wooden base sheathed in bronze, and eventually by the 5th century constructed entirely by cast iron.[3] The stirrups started triangular in shape, becoming more oval overtime, and appears to have spread from China to Korea, Northeast Asia, and Japan,[2] as well as west to Iran (sassenian cavalry), the Byzantine Empire, and eventually Europe.[1] Other evidence, such as metal stirrups found in Siberian graves dating to the second and third century A.D.[4] suggest that the metal stirrup may have developed simultaneously in several countries around the same time period.
Vale

[Ron Andrea]

Excellent input. Unfortunately, your references didn't come through.

Could you retransmit them, please?

[recondicom]

Copy. Gordians/Sassenians VI
The existence of this legion is proven by a mid-third century inscription from Aquileia that mentions that the signifer (an officer) of VI Hispana dedicates something to the god Mithras. It is perhaps possible to date this inscription to the reign of Philippus Arabs (244-249)...
The number was probably derived from another legion in Spain, VII Gemina...
During the third century the garrison unit was Cohors II Asturum Equitata, a five-hundred strong mixed unit of cavalry and infantry, from the Astures tribe of Northen Spain. Their presence is recorded on a building inscription claiming credit for rebuilding the granary in the fort. The unit is also mentioned as the garrison ofs Aesica in the Notitia Dignitatum, but recorded with the numeral I (primae), which is probably an error.
Vale

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Manuel,

You seem to have lost me. What do these quotes from livius.org and roman-britain.org to do with sub-roman cavalry?

[recondicom]

Hola pana.
The controversy of the stirrups has been with us for a long time now. The underlying doctrine of the quotes is the idea of following the horseman and the horse. The Iberian horse was well known by the Romans. Patton liked the Viennese school of riding and coincidently that’s where the Gemina ended in the final registry of the Legion. And so… If there were stirrups during the Empire they had to be part of Gemina. Again. The quotes are to forward the idea that IMO stirrups were used by the Legion by the most advanced of riders. (special)
Vale

More quotes
Copy. “Xenophon, in one of his books written about 370 B.C., admiringly describes the equestrian war techniques of Iberian mercenaries who were influential in the victory of Sparta against Athens in the Peloponnesian wars. This type of warfare consisted of individual horse charges with fast starts, stops and pirouettes followed by retreats and renewed attacks. A form of riding that was made possible by the use of incredibly agile horses, curb bits and stirrups”

Also During Hadrian the special unit is mentioned (recalling from memory)

[Ron Andrea]

I'm with Robert on this one. What's the connection to post-Roman calvary in Britain?

[recondicom]

An astur/celtiberan connection. If the horseman (and the horse) was educated without stirrups; a total different schooling of horsemanship will be required to take full advantage. Moreover, the introduction of stirrups followed the slow path ( as in centuries) to the Middle-Ages.
Vale.

[Conal]

Me is smelling a Troll :|

[Ron Andrea]

Yes, the stirrup controversy is related, but well discussed earlier. Hard stirrups may have been necessary for Medieval horse-brone warfare, but hardly for the way the Romans used calvary. The information about using a spear like a lance without stirrups is relatively new information

I didn't see the connection of the inscriptions to Mithras, etc.

[recondicom]

Mithras has to do with the underlying currents. Mostly related to armor… and new school. Old sassenian coin portraits two man on horseback pre-Mithras doctrines… the duality… Templars. Deu Arimario. (misspelling ?)... However, different from inscriptions at the Hadrian wall. Celtiberan had stirrups.

Vale

[recondicom]

:mrgreen: said Troll.
Celtiberan. Obviously.
I come to know trolling as a good thing. Duende Achileus I said. Museum trolling or strolling. But, all words change with culture… take fucking… which actually means to seed… so when someone actually said “ Don’t fuck with me” I’m wondering if he means not to troll with him while seeding the field. Me like to eat potatoes.
Vale.

[Ron Andrea]

That's what I mean, the Templars were six or seven hundred years later. I'm not following your line of reasoning.

It's been pretty well established that hard stirrups probably had not appeared in Britain during these period--roughly the fifth and sixth century AD.

I take those dates from the departure of the last legions early inthe fifth century through the Saxon conquest of "England." At the Battle at Dyrham in 574, the Saxons broke through to the Bristol Channel, cutting the Britons in Cornwall off from Devonian promontory (henceforth, "Wales"), effectively ending Briton possession of the southern part of what we know call England, except for Cornwall. In 598, the Battle of Catraeth (Catterick) in York was pretty much the last offensive action by Britons in the north. (Three hundred mounted Britons, by the way.) It resulted in the slaughter which Aneirin immortalized in the Gododdin.

[recondicom]

Saxon;sason;sassones
I'm wondering if you relate the actual object (stirrups) with the actual usage and therefore is like saying. "We had the spaceship but we did not know how to use it"
Vale

[Ron Andrea]

I suspect that horsemen who had stirrups used them.

[recondicom]

Who? the indians? Nah... It is their way. Just be careful they don't torch you. Vale.