officers gear pics-Julius

[Florentius]

Just in case anyone is interested in looking at some very nice officers gear, Prefect Julius has allowed me to create a page to display his work: http://www.florentius.com/julius.htm (it is also posted in a response somewhere out there).

[Magnus]

Wish the cuirass was metal and not leather though :wink:

[Theodosius the Great]

Awesome ! 8)

Wish the cuirass was metal and not leather though :wink:

He has one. Bronzed brass, IIRC.

~Theo

[jvrjenivs]

Good to see you back on here, Jared!

Did he make that praetorian guard helmet himself?

[Florentius]

Ave,
Thanks Jurjen. Yes, as Theodysius says, he does have a brass one, which is also correctly Roman styled and proportioned. In fact the leather is molded on the brass. I will add pics of that at some point, I just don't have them yet.
He decided after wearing the metal one that the lack of movement and comfort (the leather being easily worn all day) supported the idea of them being leather. It is perhaps also supported by the notable lack of artifacts. Either way it looks awesome. It is really unusual to have a non-costumy looking officer.

As far a the helmet, he usually starts with a Valentine Armory helmets, tears it apart and reshaped the bowl. All the additional pieces he built from scratch. That helmet is a work of art!

[PhilusEstilius]

I have just been looking at how Jvlivs has fixed the fastners of the cuirass and it would appear he has devised his own idea of loops and studs instead of straps and buckles or indeed the hinge and pin method.

[Florentius]

Ave,

I have just been looking at how Jvlivs has fixed the fastners of the cuirass and it would appear he has devised his own idea of loops and studs instead of straps and buckles or indeed the hinge and pin method.

That Julius or I've ever seen, on sculpture or anything else, there's no evidence that musculata ever had straps and buckles. Well, that's not entirely true, they do sometimes in the movies :wink: The difficulty is that it's very hard to see anything of the actual connection. Certainly, if it is metal, hinges are a likely solution, evidenced here: http://www.legionsix.org/images/musclecuirass.jpg and http://www.legionsix.org/images/muscleoblique.jpg however, I think this one might be Etruscan, not Roman. At any rate it has multiple hinges, the rivets holding the hinges on also look like something not found in sculpture. No doubt one of the reasons for the low profile connection is that with bare arms you cant really have a bunch of stuff sticking out your side to catch on.
Unfortunately I don't have the a great collection of musculata statuepictures, but I understand that there are depictions of a strap, or metal band, that comes out a slot and goes back in on the other side. The only difference then would be the external use of the button post. Julius made the decision to do it that way because having an inaccessible connector on the inside (be it buckle, post, or what have you) seemed uncomfortable, and illogical. We certainly know they had post buttons,for example the one used on a loculus ring. That may of course be horse hardware, but it's still button post.
I believe his metal musculata has all hinges.
It's really too bad you can't get on Travis Clarkes musculata site anymore. Even when you way back it, most of the pics are gone, and of the ones that remain, it only the small thumbnails.

[jvrjenivs]

our muscle cuirass has hinges on the inside, on of which has a removable pen, which is easily inserted when the wearer holds his arm up. To remove it, it has a leather lace connected to it. Pretty easy, no problems nor comfort matters and no connection visible on the outside

[Florentius]

I've been diggin a bit in the archive of the Travis Clark Musculata Resource page, and here's a relevant quote:
"Here is an additional example from a loricata in the Vatican, showing these strap hinges. And here is another, also from the vatican. The type is very common. While the loricae segmentata have clear fasteners and buckles there are no clear fasteners on the lorica musculata, aside from the shoulder fasteners. Nearly all of the modern reproductions of the lorica musculata use buckles to fasten the backplate to the breastplate. However, while we know Romans had buckles and we find them on the lorica segmentata, there are no images of the lorica musculata with buckles as fasteners. The lorica musculata is NEVER seen with buckles. Instead, they use these rather small strap hinges and simple ties. At the top of the seam on the right side of the Primaporta, directly underneath the arm we can see a small tie."
This can be seen on the Prima Porta, which has very clear hinges on the shoulders (very uncommon) but very diminutive straps on the side seams, and a small tie under the arms.

Wish the cuirass was metal and not leather though :wink:

Here is another quote from Travis, regarding materials. He is discussing a sculpture in a museum in Turkey, and has seen it personally.

"Looking at it, it has been suggested that this is a subarmalis and not the actual lorica. Having seen it in person I know that's not the case. The cuirass has all the details of a typical lorica musculata, the anatomical waistline, the tongue pteruges, and even the shoulder copings and harness, which are always on the outside of the lorica, so this is definitely a lorica musculata.

If you look closely at the lower abdomen of the cuirass you can see that it holds the shape of a human abdomen, but the material is obviously flexible. There is only one material available to the ancient Romans that could be BOTH flexible enough to bend like this example and rigid enough to hold a molded shape: boiled or treated leather."
Please note that Travis does not in any way insist that all musculata were leather, on the contrary, that there were both, but perhaps, mostly leather.

[Florentius]

Cool 8)

our muscle cuirass has hinges on the inside, on of which has a removable pen, which is easily inserted when the wearer holds his arm up. To remove it, it has a leather lace connected to it. Pretty easy, no problems nor comfort matters and no connection visible on the outside

I'd like to see pics. Do you have a link?

[Theodosius the Great]

As far a the helmet, he usually starts with a Valentine Armory helmets, tears it apart and reshaped the bowl. All the additional pieces he built from scratch. That helmet is a work of art!

It sure is. It's the best reproduction I've ever seen.

BTW, the most comparable Hollywood reproduction I know of comes from "the Robe" with Richard Burton.
See the clickable photo below :





It's inferior to Julius' but it's great by Hollywood standards, IMO

~Theo

[jvrjenivs]

Cool 8)

our muscle cuirass has hinges on the inside, on of which has a removable pen, which is easily inserted when the wearer holds his arm up. To remove it, it has a leather lace connected to it. Pretty easy, no problems nor comfort matters and no connection visible on the outside

I'd like to see pics. Do you have a link?

I don't think we've close up pictures of the closure, but here you can find a picture of him wearing the thing:

[Marcus Mummius]

This topic reminds me I urgently have to get back to working on my Tribunus impression. If I wait much longer I'll be to old to convincingly depict a tribunus laticlavuus :lol:

I plan to go a different road though. I'll wear a squamata and a selectively silvered Weiler helmet with a permanent crestbox fitted on top of it.

Hopefully I'll be able to do get everything sorted out this summer.

[Lucius Cornelius Traianus]

Must say that they are very impressive works of art.

I too, tried to fit myself in a metal cuirass but at the end I also, feel more confortable in a leather one.

Could it be possible that on march or in directing a campange the major officiers used leather. How many actually were in the line of combat, except for maybe Julius Caesar according to his Gallic Commentaries ?

Also, most were more than likely surrounded by their body guards.

Gleaming metal armour must have been used for Victory Parades or Special Ceremonies or Events.

[QVINTVS ARTORIVS CORVINVS]

Wow,

Does he sell this stuff ??? If so how much? Mainly interested in the helmet.

If not, is anyone selling one of those Deepeeka Pratorian hats by chance?