Death of Mark Antony

[Quintus Sertorius]

I have just returned from a holiday in Egypt doing the temples between Luxor and Aswan. I was interested to hear the Egyptian Historian accompanying us say that Mark Antony died at Actium and hearing he had died, Cleopatra fled back to Egypt. In due course Octavian arrived and she committed suicide. I am aware that the the Egyptians have no love of the Roman Empire and all it stood for. My historian was quite adamant of Antony's death at Actium. I have two opposing hypothesis:

1.Hating Rome, the last thing the Egyptians wish to remember is their last great queen dying for the love of a Roman hero. The answer, rewrite history. The guy was a military failure, Cleopatra flees back to Egypt where Octavian arrives and forces her to suicide rather than face total humiliation at the hands of Rome. All the Roman's fault!

2.Octavian had done all he could to defame Mark Antony before meeting him at Actium. Nevertheless, Mark Antony was still a popular figure even if he had erred in the eyes of many. It might not sit well at Rome of Octavian had killed him at Actium, so the propaganda machine swings into action and the old hero flees in a cowardly fashion to pursue his Egyptian love – yes dear Romans, he really has gone native! The he kills himself before Octavian could get to him. Yes dear Romans, he killed himself – not Octavian's fault! The defamation of Antony is complete and Octavian gets what he wanted.

I guess a third alternative is that history as we read it is correct. Just what are the sources for the historic version? Were there Pompeian legions awaiting in Egypt after Actium?

Views people?

Quintus
(AKA Guido Aston)

[Epictetus]

Did you ask the Egyptian historian where he got this information? I suppose there must be a source of some sort, unless it is simply a conspiracy theory.

As far as I know, every source we have says that Antony died in Egypt. The sources even mention ongoing embassies between Octavian and Antony after Actium. A number of Roman citizens therefore met Antony in Egypt after his defeat, so there were a number of respectabable eyewitness accounts that he was still alive. A lot of things were going on between Actium and Antony's suicide. Does he claim that all this was made up?

One of my favourite sources is Plutarch.

[Quintus Sertorius]

I suspect you are right Epictetus. I have never doubted the version we were given, then I heard this other Egyptian line. There were embassies to Mark Antony as I recall. I think this stems from the dislike of the Romans by the Egyptian and there has been a bit of rewriting history perhaps?
Quintus
(AKA Guido Aston).

[A_Volpe]

Mark Antony was still a popular figure even if he had erred in the eyes of many.

so the propaganda machine swings into action

Since re-examining the known history of Anthony since being intrigued by his portrayal in HBO's Rome, I would agree with you.

We may never really know the truth as it's so muddied down with pro-Octavian propaganda and centuries of "this is how we think it happened"

As I understand it, Anthony was seen as a "Roman's Roman", so to go cavorting off with this 'alien', and 'foreign' Egyptian Queen surely may have been shocking and (disheartening?) to Romans as the story unfolded...But I tend to think Anthony saw an opportunity to continue Caesar's foothold in Egypt and perhaps take a shot at 'good old' tactics of marrying and reproducing with Cleopatra, just as Caesar had (started) to do...I would not be one bit surprised if Octavian may have even been a little jealous of Anthony getting some exotic tail in the process. :mrgreen: Although I'm sure Agrippa felt he was doing a bang-up job with the African provinces as it was and didn't want Anthony's "help".

But of course as I've said we'll probably never no for sure...But damn does it make for a good story!

[VespilloAD64]

From reading Cassius Dio Cleopatra hatched a plan to make Anthony and his followers believe that she had died.So when he went to her tomb he drew his sword and begged one of his servants to kill him but they would not.So he stabbed himself(not enough to kill him out right)and fell face down to make bystanders think that he was dead.A great cry from all was heard and Cleo heard this and peeped up out of her tomb and Anthony's crew saw this and shouted that she was still alive and Anthony heard this although near deaths door and that he lost lots of blood commanded his people to carry him to cleopatra and there he died in her bosom.
That's more or less what it says in Dio's The Reign of Augustus on page 71-72.

[M. Demetrius]

I wonder if Shakespeare used that text as inspiration for the climax of Romeo and Juliet?

[Jona Lendering]

I wonder if Shakespeare used that text as inspiration for the climax of Romeo and Juliet?

Or Dio quotes the story of Pyramus and Thisbe?

[Quintus Sertorius]

We must question even the most ancient of sources. After all, look what Shakespeare achieved with the memory of Richard III. His patron was the grand daughter of the man who defeated Richard. Accepted that Shakespeare was no historian, but for an ancient writer of history, what he wrote could cost him his life if he drew down displeasure upon himself.

I still am inclined to think the Egyptians have it wrong though.

Quintus
(AKA Guido Aston)