11-19-2009, 07:36 AM
Quote:R?zvan,
And how do you know all these people spoke the same (Thracian) language, or even that they shared a common identity? Apparently even the populations north (Dacians, Moesians, Getae) and south (Thracians) of Haemus had different languages. Dan Dana argued in one recent study ("Les daces dans les ostraca du désert oriental de l'Égypte. Morphologie des noms daces" published in ZPE, 143/2003, 166-186):
The best overview in English I know (though somewhat obsolete as many Dacian and Thracian names were discovered recently) is Edgar Polomé's chapter "Balkan languages (Illyrian, Thracian and Daco-Moesian)" in Cambridge Ancient History, vol. 3.1 (1982), 866-88.
- Georgiev avait affirmé depuis 1957 que le thrace et le dace étaient des langues différentes, établissant une distinction bien évidente sur le plan de la toponymie: -dava en Mésie et en Dacie, -para et -bria en Thrace. Ces données semblent être confirmées par la répartition des anthroponymes. Georgiev a comparé seulement les noms des rois thraces et daces, mais c'était suffisant pour observer, à juste titre, qu'il n'y a pas de correspondance entre les deux onomastiques, ce qui s'ajoute à la différenciation toponymique pour indiquer que le dace et le thrace sont deux langues indo-européennes différentes. Ce dont il n'a pas fait l'examen, c'est l'onomastique des gens ordinaires, qui confirme l'idée de deux langues distinctes.
Fair enough, but often those "davas" are intermingled with Celtic, Iranic, not to mention Greek and Latin toponyms. It's hard to get a fair diachronic perspective and to attempt to find the languages spoken in a certain moment of time, but the variety available should make us cautious about any sweeping statements claiming a dominant language over this vast area.
Salut Dragos
Yes, i agree that southern thrancians and dacians from northern areas ( dacians/getae/moesians) speak diferent languages. And, from what i manage to read in your quote (damn, my french is even worse then english :roll:
) they had diferent endings for toponyms, "dava" (however with some notable exceptions as the capitol Sarmisegetuza) for dacians and "para" and "bria" for southern thracians, and had diferent names ( king names, or even common people, if i understand correct), which lead the conclusion of that Georgiev that they speak two diferent languages. However, i read the opinion that yes, the dacian and thracian languages are indeed diferent, but they come from an imediatly common ancestor, have common roots in a kind of proto-thracian language (another part split from this being phrygian for ex.). As well, they seems to have some diferent habits, and ways of life, probably because of religion, with dacians adopting Zalmoxe as supreme god and living by his laws, in the mean time thracians still having more many gods, and with a lot of influence from greeks too. However, they share usualy some of the main gods, as godess Bendis, translated in Greece by thracians, from a northen area (Dacia), where she mix with the cult of Artemis - Diana of romans, Sabazios - Dyonisos-Bachus, there was a god of war as well, like greeks Ares or roman Mars, who was considered that was born in getian (dacian) lands, and was worshiped by both dacians and thracians, it was another godess, Hestia (Vesta to romans), which Diodor from Sicily said she gived the laws to Zalmoxis, Gebeleizis was another common god, as well Derzelas and the so called "Danubian knight". This show that they had a common ancestors, in my opinion. However, as Zalmoxis become the supreme god of dacians, and he took the attributes of other gods too (probably dacians was on the route of becoming monotheists, at least nobles/tarabostes and Zalmoxis priests probably worshiped and recognize as god just Zalmoxis), even religions of dacian and thracians become more different. But is interesting that thracians and dacians share several gods with both greeks and romans, even if had some others diferent, and have an original faith after all.
Razvan A.
