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Some Aspis Revisionism
#33
Quote:On the basis that one picture is worth a thousand words, here is a schematic on how I believe Hoplites stood, held their aspides and fought.......(attached)

Square to the fore exactly as I described. Not the fencer's stance (wrong arm forward) that some authors have advocated and some art shows.

Quote:Paul B.'s method of overlapped shields would, apart from anything else, not allow dexterity or proper use of the shield - two things no sane warrior would give up.

No, not my method, any method of overlapping limits the utility of the shield in parrying. Evidently the romans in fulcum and anglo-saxons in board-weal were insane. Right over left is no worse, in fact in many ways better, that left over right.

Quote:Finally, I have opined before that pyknosis/close order and synaspismos/locked shields were more or less the same for Hoplites because of the size of the shield ; unlike the Macedonian synaspismos, with their smaller pelta

Highly unlikely given the fact that "synaspismos" is impossible when holding a sarissa in your left hand, indicating that the term was probably literal for the hoplites and figurative for sarissaphoroi.

Quote:which allowed only half a cubit/18"/ 45 cm frontage per man - they most certainly stood side on, because you can't grasp a two-handed pike and stand 'square'. Polybius tells us too that on occasion rear ranks 'pushed', so it can be done and evidently was. In principle, the Macedonian Phalanx evolved from the Hoplite and was not radically different - yet another flaw in Paul B's hypothesis.

Not radically different??? The sarissa is stabbed by advancing the whole body and thrusting the arms forwards in unison, the dory by torquing the body- just as you drew. If you do not end up with your body square to the foe you are not getting the power out of this torquing motion.

If you stand aspis to aspis with a man in front of you and he is squared on and you are side on, you will soon be looking up at him from the ground. I spent years of my young life putting people on the ground in just this manner, so I am quite confident in the outcome. This is the first thing any lineman is taught. You may be better able to spear fence side on, though I doubt it since you give up too much in reach, but not push.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Messages In This Thread
Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 07:58 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 08:02 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 08:06 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 08:15 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-03-2009, 08:36 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 08:44 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-04-2009, 12:21 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-04-2009, 01:05 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by hoplite14gr - 06-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by MeinPanzer - 06-04-2009, 04:40 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by hoplite14gr - 06-04-2009, 06:04 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-04-2009, 07:34 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-04-2009, 08:01 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2009, 08:09 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2009, 09:10 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2009, 10:44 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2009, 11:15 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-05-2009, 05:36 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by hoplite14gr - 06-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-05-2009, 04:43 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-05-2009, 05:26 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-05-2009, 09:54 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-05-2009, 11:00 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-06-2009, 02:21 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by hoplite14gr - 06-06-2009, 05:43 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-06-2009, 06:58 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-06-2009, 07:30 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-06-2009, 09:33 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-07-2009, 01:50 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-07-2009, 03:35 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-08-2009, 10:49 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-08-2009, 10:56 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by keravnos - 06-09-2009, 09:47 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 03:23 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 03:27 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 03:30 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-03-2009, 04:16 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-03-2009, 04:23 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by MeinPanzer - 07-03-2009, 06:04 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 01:00 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 02:01 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by nikolaos - 07-03-2009, 02:33 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 04:25 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-03-2009, 04:36 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by nikolaos - 07-03-2009, 04:47 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 07-03-2009, 09:10 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by nikolaos - 07-06-2009, 01:19 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-16-2009, 08:53 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 07-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-17-2009, 01:19 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 07-17-2009, 01:44 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-17-2009, 02:29 AM

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