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Some Aspis Revisionism
#27
Quote:Paul--I disagree so strongly that all I can do is agree to disagree. I think you need to hold an aspis and a spear and stand in a line and walk forward... Anyone not standing sideways is--well, dead.

Perhaps the problem stems from a misunderstanding of what I mean when I say "sideways", for I am baffled if you think those figurines above are anything by square to the foe. Below you will see three images. The first two are egyptian and represent the "oriental" style whose conventions are followed by vase painters in the aptly names orientalizing period. I have not marched to battle in a phalanx, but I have swung a hatchet (first image) and held objects up to an altar (second image and Catholic upbringing) and I can tell you that the posture in each image is sub-optimal and obviously conforms more to style than two the ergonomics of the task. Thus when I see an image of hoplites with their bodies twisted sideways in a mirror of the other images and couple this with a knowledge that stabbing over my head or past my cheek is not the most effective way to use a spear, I feel confident that this image too is a victory of style over substance.

There is the additional problem in that when ranks close tight your neighbor's shield is levered into your sternum and your own arm is likely to get dislocated. With the way I have shown, your shield always protects your body, at worst the left flange of the shield is forced forwards, pressing the shield tighter to you. Since man and shield are a single integral unit, with nothing between them, they can all pack together like tetris pieces and no one dies.

Now that I think about it maybe we are conflating two issues, perhaps you are thinking I mean they "stand straight up" which I think we hung up on before. They do when the ranks get packed, but prior to that they are free to move their bodies as they wish as long as the shield is square to the enemy line and nothing comes between them and their aspis. By doing this the aspis is a place-holder, its width ensures that there is alwas a man's width of room for them along the battle-line. I simply believe that standing as in the images below, advancing in a sideways crab-walk, and stabbing over your head is not conducive to survival. My guess is that you don't either, but misunderstood my definition.
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Messages In This Thread
Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 07:58 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 08:02 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 08:06 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 08:15 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-03-2009, 08:36 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-03-2009, 08:44 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-04-2009, 12:21 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-04-2009, 01:05 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by hoplite14gr - 06-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by MeinPanzer - 06-04-2009, 04:40 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by hoplite14gr - 06-04-2009, 06:04 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-04-2009, 07:34 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-04-2009, 08:01 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2009, 08:09 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2009, 09:10 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2009, 10:44 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-04-2009, 11:15 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-05-2009, 05:36 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by hoplite14gr - 06-05-2009, 10:56 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-05-2009, 03:18 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-05-2009, 04:43 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-05-2009, 05:26 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-05-2009, 09:54 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-05-2009, 11:00 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-06-2009, 02:21 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by hoplite14gr - 06-06-2009, 05:43 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-06-2009, 06:58 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-06-2009, 07:30 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-06-2009, 09:33 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-07-2009, 01:50 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 06-07-2009, 03:35 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 06-08-2009, 10:49 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 06-08-2009, 10:56 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by keravnos - 06-09-2009, 09:47 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 03:23 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 03:27 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 03:30 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-03-2009, 04:16 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-03-2009, 04:23 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by MeinPanzer - 07-03-2009, 06:04 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 01:00 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 02:01 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by nikolaos - 07-03-2009, 02:33 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-03-2009, 03:52 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Kineas - 07-03-2009, 04:25 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-03-2009, 04:36 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by nikolaos - 07-03-2009, 04:47 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 07-03-2009, 09:10 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by nikolaos - 07-06-2009, 01:19 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-16-2009, 08:53 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 07-16-2009, 09:08 PM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-17-2009, 01:19 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by Paullus Scipio - 07-17-2009, 01:44 AM
Re: Some Aspis Revisionism - by PMBardunias - 07-17-2009, 02:29 AM

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