Greek sandals-soles

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

I have written this in the greek section,but it wasn't lucky,so perhaps here it will find more apeal... :

I remember reference to greek shoes having hobnails. But i haven't ever seen them in art,nor have seen actual hobnails in any museum. Has anybody reference to ancient greek hobnails? If nor,how else would they make the soles?
Any sources for accurate(even roman) hobnails?
I'm trying to use caligae construction in order to guide a manufacturer make me greek sandals.I'm mainly interested on how the back stitch was made. Was it reinforced? I have seen caligae both with reinforcement of a leather stipe and without, What is more accurate? In some photos of ancient surviving caligae that i have seen there doesn't seem tho have any reenforcement,but most reconstructions have. What is more accurate?
There were not greek military sandals so evidence from any kind of shoes would be of interest.
Thanks
Khairete
Giannis

[Martin Moser]

Hi Giannis,

check this thread for details on caliga construction: <!-- l <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6707&p=56089">viewtopic.php?f=20&t=6707&p=56089<!-- l

Any sources for accurate(even roman) hobnails?

Have you tried and contacted Matt Lukes if he has any left to sell?

I'm mainly interested on how the back stitch was made. Was it reinforced? I have seen caligae both with reinforcement of a leather stipe and without, What is more accurate? In some photos of ancient surviving caligae that i have seen there doesn't seem tho have any reenforcement,but most reconstructions have. What is more accurate?

It seems both versions existed. Judging from the surviving evidence I know of, reinforced ones seem to have been more common, but considering the vast numbers of caligae that must have existed, this may not be much of a base to go by ...

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Thanks Martin.Yes,i have read that thread of yours and indeed i'm going to use it as a base for my own sandals. I pm-ed Matt. I don't want to use that "bulky" reenforcement stipe,since it doesn't seem to have appeared in the greek sandals. I just don't know if they would last without it.
Khaire
Giannis

[Martin Moser]

I don't want to use that "bulky" reenforcement stipe,since it doesn't seem to have appeared in the greek sandals. I just don't know if they would last without it.

The narrower ones of those are hardly more than 1 cm, but even without they should last if you sew them with a double seam, flesh/edge and grain/edge. Caligae used quite heavy leather, so if you choose your leather with a minimum of 3mm thickness, you can use quite a thick thread.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Thanks Martin.
I didn't understand what you mean by flesh/edge and grain/edge. Shouldn't the stitching be visible only in the outside? I may use a reenforcing stripe only in the inside. Matt sent me a drawing of a caliga with a very narrow heel and a strip only in the inside.
Khaire
Giannis

[Martin Moser]

Hi Giannis,

I didn't understand what you mean by flesh/edge and grain/edge. Shouldn't the stitching be visible only in the outside? I may use a reenforcing stripe only in the inside. Matt sent me a drawing of a caliga with a very narrow heel and a strip only in the inside.

Look at this post: <!-- l <a class="postlink-local" href="http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?p=57297#p57297">viewtopic.php?p=57297#p57297<!-- l
The awl enters at the flesh side of the leather and comes out at the middle of the edge (so doesn't go through to the grain side). This way 2 edges can be butted together and the stitching is visible only from one side. This then gets repeated from the other side, i.e. grain/edge. This has nothing to do with the existence/absence of reinforcing strips and is done before any are added.

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

Yep,i knew of this tecnique. Thanks for explaining anyway. Some greek hobnails seem to have been flat rather than conical like those for the caligae. Is this justified for other roman civilan shoes?

[Martin Moser]

I can't remember any being described as flat except as a sign of heavy usage. It is generally assumed they were conical in shape, yes.