Oi... New, and Where to Start?

[Titus Juventius Tertius]

Salvete Omnes!

I am new to the forums! I wanted to stop in pose my endless horde of questions to you guys to see about getting some answers. I'm new to reenactment... though I dabbled in WWII era stuff before (I had heavily researched the war, the various units, and set about creating a 45th Infantry Division, 157th Regiment based on the Colorado National Guard unit... but stopped when I began my newest job and didn't have the time to put into it). I've now come to better work out my schedule and of course more importantly my finances (years later)... so that reenactment is a much more attainable goal.

Anyhow... I've always been fascinated by Ancient militaries. I am Greek by majority (my mother a full Greek immigrant came to the U.S. early in her life) and have always had a huge attraction to both the Ancient Greeks, and Romans. I've served in the military (Marine Corps Infantry) so structure, drill, and of course military discipline comes naturally to me.

So, now I come to a point in my life where I'd like to get involved in reenactment. The Romans I think fit my style better (more so than the Greeks) and I think the way this world is, it's probably easier to do (more people are probably more interested in the Romans than the Greeks). So now I need to know where to proceed.

I've researched for the last year or so the Romans and I may even have registered on this website a LONG time ago. But this seemed like the best place to start. I have many questions and to better structure it, I'll number them. So here goes... do bear with me, and I hope you guys can help me:

1. In my research I know of only one "group" in Colorado. It is a discussion group through Yahoo. They claim to be metro Denver (or at least all of Colorado but mostly Denver) yet I know nothing more of them. So, I plan to register with them today and see about getting more information on them. My question... does anyone know of another group (preferably with a website) that I can speak to or enlist with, to get into this era of reenactment.

2. Early Imperial, Late Republic, etc? The era I am most interested in is approximately 70BC to 70AD. It's a wide gap I know... but the time surrounding Caesar and Octavian (leading up to the invasion/conquering of Britain) have most interested me. From every account or resource they refer to this as the Early Imperial Era. Is that correct? Is this popular among other groups? Is there a more popular era that I could get involved in that would be more beneficial (assuming I don't get involved with the pre-existing Yahoo based group)?

3. Lorica Segmentata (lorica laminata?) or Lorica Hamata? If I get involved in the above mentioned era (70BC-70AD) which is more widely used? I assume with the restructuring of the Roman Military (as Octavian began closing down legions and moving troops about) that things started changing. The Segmentata is mentioned to have been in use at the end of the first century BC to 3rd Century AD (and beyond). Would it have been in more use than the Hamata or the other way around? Which would be more appropriate?

4. The alphabet helmet. I call it that because the Imperial Gallic and Imperial Italic helmets come in a variety of A, C, G, H, etc designations. Unlike say WWII that had 2 or so helmets, the Romans seem to have had access to countless variations. What is more appropriate to the time period?

5. The Soul of the Warrior. I noticed this website on my net travels and it seems to have some very well researched equipment. Is this a good source for buying of armor, weapons, etc for a first timer? I want to be as ABSOLUTELY accurate as I possibly can, but within reason of course. A lot of history we don't really know for sure so I know I can't be exact in every way. But, if I'm to be around other Roman reenactors I don't want them to look at me and it be blatantly obvious that what I have is not correct.

6. Shields and clothing. I've noticed a variety of different shields, and colors so I'm not exactly sure which should be correct. The shield employed by the Romans of the period should be the Scutum (pronounced sky-oot-um), yes? Is the pronunciation right? I'm no user/follower of the Latin language in the slightest so I may be off (or any ancient language for that matter). But that is the shield that I saw most often associated. Am I right to think it should also be red and bear the legion markings? I've seen a blue shield as well... why are some shields that color? Same for the cloaks... they've been blue and red. Does this signify anything in particular? Along with that, this link (and I hate using Wikipedia as an example) has an image that displays the shield in two different variations. I've come to understand that the "lines" vary with the Legion, as do the artwork. But the question is, why are the two on the end so different? One is gold on red, the other with a green wreath. Is this personal preference, era difference, or does it have to do with the legion?

7. Good sources for info? I have quite a few books on the Roman military (a handbook, a few historical reprints, a few Osprey books)... is there anything I absolutely should have in my book arsenal for reenactments sake? I ordered a few books on recommendation from a couple sites, that are still due in the mail: "The Roman Legions Recreated In Color Photographs (Europa Militaria)", "The Complete Roman Army", and I'm contemplating a few on tactics such as "Roman Warfare" and "Roman Battle Tactics". I also wanted to pick up "Caesar's Legion: The Epic Saga of Julius Caesar's Elite Tenth Legion and the Armies of Rome". Are these good choices? Any other books I should consider? Any websites I should visit (I have been to the Legio XX website frequently and bookmarked it)?

8. Thanks! This is a very informative website and is definitely helping me in my decision making. I'd very much like to start from the ground up in a pre-existing legion out here in Colorado, but if I had to create my own I would. But I'm in no position of knowledge authority to undertake that right now. I still lack far too much experience and knowledge. But I'm not sure much exists out here. I've never heard of anything (aside from that Yahoo group which I don't even know if it's still up), so I don't know where to proceed.

9. Swords. I'm curious... I know what sword I want to get (this Gladius seems appropriate for display and general carrying sake), my question is, does a sword exist that can be used for training/demonstration that is made of stage steel (or similar material)? I would imagine something that is dull, and flat tipped would be used for that purpose. But most of the swords I've seen are all sharpened and have a rather deadly tip. I've seen videos of wooden swords being used, which could be suitable for training I suppose... but is there a stage steel variety too? What is most commonly used for training or force on force demonstrations?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated! I apologize for the novel of a thread... but I have many questions. If I get them answered, I'll edit/delete them and then add more. I'm sure I'll have more. Thanks again!

EDIT: Added a #9.

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

Ha, you don't ask much, do you? No problem, welcome to RAT! You're in the right place. Really can't help you on other Romans local to you, but others here might know more.

Yes, my humble Legio XX site is definitely what I (in my enormous modesty) would recommend as your basic guide. I'll try to hit a few of your other questions.

2. Most groups in the US aim more or less for the mid-first century AD, if only because most off-the-shelf equipment is aimed at that era. But a lot of it is good for earlier stuff, too. So it's possible to come up with a basic kit which will cover a pretty wide span of time. Some groups will be happy with a member doing an earlier impression than everyone else, others may be more strict. If you're on your own, do what you LIKE!! We're reenactors, here--actual heritage has nothing to do with it.

3., 4., etc. For a kit that can cover anything from about 40 BC to at least 50 AD, I'd recommend a lorica hamata, Coolus C helmet, Mainz style gladius, curve-sided scutum (SCOOtum, by the way!), and a belt with narrow plates (cast or plain sheet). All of that is basically acceptable for the civil wars of Octavian and Antony, but still perfectly good for the conquest of Britain. We honestly don't know if lorica segmentata was more common than hamata even during the first century AD, nor if there was any status difference between troops wearing either type, etc. Some of us wear segmentata just because it looks cool, others wear hamata just because it's more comfortable! Coolus helmets were probably the most common in the time span you mention, but after mid-first century the Imperial styles were winning out. Fashions change. Shield color is a huge question mark--we think each legion had its own emblem, but we can't really prove that. We know of a lot of different emblems, and there are a few surviving color depictions and surviving shield bits that suggest some colors (including red), but putting it all together is up to each unit (or individual).

5. Soul of the Warrior is good people (Rusty Myers), and other good off-the-shelf suppliers include La Wren's Nest and Imperium Ancient Armory. All have items which are generally accepted as accurate, but they also have stuff I would recommend against, and a few things that can be modified if you're clever and moderately talented. Best to check the bottom of each particular Legio XX page for recommended sources. (I can add to those or update them if anything new has come out since I last looked.)

7. For a good overview, I still recommend Peter Connolly's "Greece and Rome at War". Simkins' Ospreys are kind of outdated but still have some good tidbits, but Graham Sumner's Ospreys on Roman Military Clothing are state of the art and fabulous. Bishop and Coulston's "Roman Military Equipment" is in its 2nd edition and a "must have". Dando-Collins book on Legio X gets very bad reviews, here, overall. For many specifics, you can't beat a few days of just browsing through RAT topics! Start with the History and Archeology section and browse backwards in time about a year or so, clicking on any topic that looks like it might be pertinant. I still do that sometimes! Then repeat with the Reconstruction section. The search function can be useful, too, if you have a particular subject in mind.

That get you started? Don't delete anything from your first post! Just keep asking whatever you need to ask. Believe me, if you get too pesky we'll let you know! Good luck and Vale,

Matthew

[Titus Juventius Tertius]

Thanks Matthew... you seem to be a significant source of information on this site (from the threads that I've read and the posts filled with praise). So thanks for taking the time to hit on some of my questions. As with anything I get involved in I want to be as informed as I can be. So I'm sure I'll be asking a lot.

I've definitely looked over your site as of late and will continue to dig deeper. It's filled with a ton of information and I don't think anything could get through the whole thing in less than a month of constant reading. It's definitely great for people like me, I'd like to think.

Yeah, I've always pronounced it Scoo-tum... but I saw a reference or two of the pronunciation different. So thanks for clarifying it. From what I've also read the semi square/oval shield is the commonplace for my time set time period correct? The purely oval one came after, and the round shield came much much before. Is that right?

So, the more suitable sword for the 70-70 time period is the Mainz? Is this a good example? Are Depeeka swords worth buying (I've heard to stay away from some of their products)? Oh and what is best for drilling versus actual demonstration or "combat" (in terms of materials of the sword)?

Thanks for the site recommendations and the books as well. I'll surely take a look at them. I've also gone through a lot of the threads here prior to registering and will continue to do so. This site has a wealth of information that you just can't put a value price on.

One thing I do know... is that when I figure out what I want to do and where I plan to go, I'll take my time. I know not to jump right away and buy out everything. I'll start simple, add a few things, and with any luck by the time I've fully suited, I'll also have found a home in which to serve. Being a military man I know a lot about soldiering, and I've always enjoyed honoring those that served before me. With my family background I could assume that my family was from Greece, or any nearby country if you were to go back far enough. One could argue that at some point I may (or my family may) have been Roman. With the way the world expanded and the influences mixed with local cultures, you never do know (especially when much of the world was at war in some shape or form in the past). So Greeks and Romans and the likes have always held a special place in my heart. Be good to learn more about the culture.

But anyway, thanks again for the info. Hopefully others add in some of their experience into the mix so I can make as many informed decisions as I can.

[Caius Fabius]

Welcome to the forums.
please go and read the rules for posting?
There is a little something about putting a signature block together
so your name shows up in each post.

45th Infantry Division?
They have a realy nice museum in Oklahoma City,

be well

[Titus Juventius Tertius]

Welcome to the forums.
please go and read the rules for posting?
There is a little something about putting a signature block together
so your name shows up in each post.

45th Infantry Division?
They have a realy nice museum in Oklahoma City,

be well

I see my name in each post. Is it not showing up to the rest of the forum?

EDIT: I've added to it so that hopefully it shows up and ensured the box is checked to display the signature.

[Matthew Amt]

From what I've also read the semi square/oval shield is the commonplace for my time set time period correct? The purely oval one came after, and the round shield came much much before. Is that right?

Well, Greek-style round shields were used by the first class of legionaries, basically armed as hoplites, until around 500 BC, but lower classes used a range of tall oval or oblong shapes, like these:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/repscuta.jpg

At some point, this "Republican oval" shape (as I call it) had its top and bottom cut off square, possibly to make it lighter and easier to carry on the march, and giving us the "Augustan" curve-sided shape:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/augscutum.jpg

That was definitely in use by the time of Augustus, but might date back farther than that. It's also hard to say just when the classic rectangle shows up, but it's pretty typical for first century AD (though there are a few dissenters on that detail!). I think the third century AD is when you see a rounder oval shape showing up, replacing the rectangle.

You REALLY want Peter Connolly's book! It's an excellent overview from 600 BC through 400 AD, though it does have some inaccuracies and outdated bits here and there.

So, the more suitable sword for the 70-70 time period is the Mainz? Is this a good example?

That's the current Deepeeka Mainz, a lovely piece, but on the last one I saw in person the scabbard was huge. Don't know if they've scaled that down a tad or not.

Are Depeeka swords worth buying (I've heard to stay away from some of their products)? Oh and what is best for drilling versus actual demonstration or "combat" (in terms of materials of the sword)?

Well, I think Deepeeka's latest Pompeii sword looks great, and they have some other reasonable to good weapons. But I honestly don't know how well they will stand up to modern pounding. I don't think even REAL swords were meant to take the kind of abuse that occurs in some forms of modern reenactments! We tend to overengineer things these days, to avoid busting them, at the expense of accuracy. So, do you want a GOOD sword, or a really strong one? Actually, I expect if you got a custom-made blade by Mark Morrow or some other custom swordsmith, it would be as stong as you need but still darned accurate.

One thing I do know... is that when I figure out what I want to do and where I plan to go, I'll take my time.

Excellent. Patience is the most important tool in your toolbox. I never have enough, myself! A tunic and footwear are a good place to start. In fact, you might start with simple carbatinae instead of caligae, to learn about sizing and shape before getting into all the complex cutting.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/carb1.gif

But anyway, thanks again for the info.

You're welcome! Glad the site's been helpful. I built it to help folks like you.

Vale,

Matthew

[Titus Juventius Tertius]

Once again, thanks for the information. I'm sure I'll have more questions soon. I've been going back to the beginning here on the forums and hitting up the XX website these last hours. Definitely going to take time.

I've also registered with that Yahoo group, and the membership is still pending. They are said to be 100AD or so, but I can't access much more information than that. It's unfortunate there's so many groups out there and none here.

You spoke of custom swords... I would definitely be willing to order one when I know what it is I plan to do. The question is, you recommended the Mainz... if I were to get involved with a group a tad later (100AD or slightly beyond) would that sword still hold up or would a Pompeii Gladius be more accurate? I saw mention of the Pompeii sword showing up at a very AD time, so I would assume you can't lose with that... but the Mainz seemed to filter out mid first century (so it seems). I'd want to make sure that I'm being as accurate as I can be, especially if I'm to show others.

What was the commonplace shield during the first century BC? Same oval Republican style I assume? I think that would be the best option for me if the timeframe become sooner or later. Any recommendations on who to stay away from, or who to look at for an accurate shield?

I'll take a look at that book you mentioned today. With any luck they have it at a local store if not it's back to Amazon for me. Appreciate all the pointers!

[Matthew Amt]

You spoke of custom swords... I would definitely be willing to order one when I know what it is I plan to do. The question is, you recommended the Mainz... if I were to get involved with a group a tad later (100AD or slightly beyond) would that sword still hold up or would a Pompeii Gladius be more accurate?

I wouldn't use a Mainz much later than about 50 AD, nor a Pompeii much earlier than c. 20 or even 30 AD. No one is going to yell too loudly for 10 years either side of those lines, but 100 AD is too late for a Mainz.

What was the commonplace shield during the first century BC? Same oval Republican style I assume? I think that would be the best option for me if the timeframe become sooner or later.

Well, early first century BC would be the Republican oval, but by late first century BC shorter "Augustan" style is the generally accepted standard. Though we have depictions of *Praetorians* with the old Republican oval even in the first century AD!

Any recommendations on who to stay away from, or who to look at for an accurate shield?

Soul of the Warrior has excellent blanks by Robert Wear of Legio V in Tennessee, and I think he might paint one for you as well. Straight-sided and curve-sided scutum styles. The latest Deepeeka Imperial scutum is not bad, and they even have a Republican scutum but the boss is pretty big. Daniyal Steelcrafts was working on an excellent rectangular scutum (with the Legio XX emblem, woo hoo!), but I don't know if that's available yet or who might carry it.

Vale!

Matthew

[Titus Juventius Tertius]

Thanks again Matthew. A wealth of info! I definitely know where I'm headed. Unfortunately I'm not sure things are looking up for that Yahoo group. They are 104AD or so, which I could deal with, but they haven't gotten back to me much (one message over a weeks time). So I may have to be on my own on this one.

How did you get started Matthew? What got you interested? I saw your page about starting your own group on the XX site, but what did you do specifically? How did the Legio XX come to be?

[barcid]

Welcome TJ nice period of history your interested in enjoy the ride. I reenact WW2 as well FJ crete & north africa against the Aussie guys here .so many toys so little time

[Matthew Amt]

How did you get started Matthew? What got you interested? I saw your page about starting your own group on the XX site, but what did you do specifically? How did the Legio XX come to be?

"VENI, VIDI..." by Matthew "Quintus" Amt

Many of us get into reenacting from rather humble origins. In high school I was hooked on Tolkien and Dungeons and Dragons, and thusly getting ready to dabble in medieval reenacting, when I took a course called Ancient History. Though I presumably enjoyed it greatly, I don't remember much about it except that I did a project instead of a final paper (I hated writing, believe it or not!). With such meager sources as National Geographic and some help from Dad, I made a lorica segmentata out of aluminum roof flashing and an old leather jacket, a masonite and vinyl scutum, a wooden gladius, and a rather wobbly pilum. I got an "A"! Mind you, this was in 1980, long before the Internet or most of the books that are essential today.

In college a couple decent books came my way, I learned a LOT more, and began to dream of having the "real stuff" some day. Both of my roommates were avid Revolutionary War reenactors, and they taught me the "true path" of Authenticity. I rebuilt my aluminum lorica to make a respectable version of the Newstead style as it was interpreted then (though now we know it was much different than we had thought). It was amazing to see the flexibility of the armor when it was properly constructed! The wooden gladius gave way to a rehilted Civil War artillery sword (still sold by some vendors as "Roman"!), and eventually that was replaced by a Del Tin Pompeii gladius from Museum Replicas. My long-time friend Tom Kolb was paralleling my work, with an even better aluminum lorica and a rather ugly helmet that he'd bought at a Renaissance faire.

The big break came when Tom returned from a semester at Cambridge with the excavation report from Corbridge, which has scale drawings of every piece of lorica segmentata found there. We started making cardboard patterns, searching for rivets, and shopping for an armorer competent to make good helmets. Right off the bat we realized that we could skip the "fiberglass and aluminum" phase that some of the older European groups went through, and learn from their mistakes. Although we'd heard rumors of Roman reenactors in other parts of the U.S., Tom and I assumed that we'd be be the only ones on the East Coast, and we had no intention of trying to form some kind of group.

Yeah, right.

Nine months later there were a dozen guys saying they wanted to join up. The Twentieth Legion was born. Ave!
---------------------

Wrote that up years ago. Tom and I got seriously started about 1990, and we must have incorporated in '91 or '92. He and I had both been doing medieval reenactment since 1980, and Rev War since about 1985. So we had a lot of skills and methodology that carried over from those. The mid-first century drew our attention because it was comparatively well-documented, equipment-wise. And we settled on Legio XX simply because they were based in Britain, so that stuff published about them or their stuff was in English. We considered Legio X Fretensis, because of Masada, but at that time there was practically nothing known about their kit, just a very popular theory (now known to be baseless) that eastern legions wore mail rather than lorica segmentata. Well, we wanted to do Roman *because* we liked segmentata! And we'd had enough of mail from medieval reenacting. So Legio XX it was.

Valete!

Matthew

[Titus Juventius Tertius]

Well more questions for you then.

- Lorica Hamata
- Coolus style helmet
- Oval style Scutum
- Mainz style Gladius

If so, is this a good example of the Scutum:

Link

There's SO many different variants to the same style (which is a different variant of another... and so on) that one could get confused. So I want to make the best choice I can. There's mention of an "Augustus" style curved shield... is that during the Augustus reign, or in honor of it afterwards?

Next question is metal vs. wood. When was one or the other used if ever? I hear mention of the shields being both materials, but the wood is most often associated. Then of course you have shows like HBO's Rome that had a subdued (not bright red we see most often) metallic shield (with oval and straight edged together in a scene) that adds more mess to inaccuracies. So what's best in the shield department?

Oh, and to pry more knowledge from you... I'm still trying to figure out where to go (start something, or travel a great distance to get involved in something already established). If I started my own "gig" I'd need to pick a Legio. The few of interest I found were the:

- VIII
- VIIII
- XIII
- XIIII

I'd want a unit that served during the era (pre-civil war, and in Gaul) and still existed into the Imperial era (should I want to branch out in the future and include 100+AD elements). I'd also like something of a faithful unit that didn't flip flop sides during the civil war. Do any of these stand out as a decent choice? Unfortunately there's just not enough information on the net about any of them (or any specific legion for that matter).

[Matthew Amt]

Well more questions for you then.

- Lorica Hamata
- Coolus style helmet
- Oval style Scutum
- Mainz style Gladius

If so, is this a good example of the Scutum:

Link

There's SO many different variants to the same style (which is a different variant of another... and so on) that one could get confused. So I want to make the best choice I can. There's mention of an "Augustus" style curved shield... is that during the Augustus reign, or in honor of it afterwards?

I'm not sure it's possible to span 140 years with one set of gear. To me, the main sticking point would be the shield. The oval is fine up through Caesar, I'd say, but I'm not sure I'd want to drag it much past Actium. Just gut feelings! (And possible Praetorian use notwithstanding.) The "Augustan" shield is the one with straight top and bottom and curved sides, so called because it is solidly dated to his reign (e.g., Arch of Orange), but it still shows up on Trajan's Column. And it MIGHT date back as early as Caesar, or even before, but we just don't have much to base that on! And of course there's the problem of what emblem to put on it--those were clearly evolving a lot between 50 BC and 50 AD. An undecorated oval shield might be perfectly correct for 50 BC but is probably wrong for 9 AD, for example. And the variations on eagle wings and lightning bolts popular in the early Empire probably are not correct for Caesar's day.

So I'd say if you went with Coolus, hamata, "Augustan" shield, and Mainz gladius, you'd be good from around 40 BC to 50 or 60 AD, not a bad span. Use a belt with plain rectangular plates and no apron, nicely simple and generic. Then you can add an oval scutum to edge back into 50 or 60 BC, though a Montefortino helmet would be better the earlier you go. And a gladius hispaniensis. To go beyond 60 AD, get a Pompeii sword and a Gallic or Italic helmet. Face it, eventually you'll have 2 or 3 complete sets of gear! Which is the goal, of course.

Next question is metal vs. wood. When was one or the other used if ever?

No question at all: ALWAYS wood. Romans stopped using metal shields about the time of Romulus. The boss is another matter--a Republican oval shield can have an all-wooden spine boss. But even some of those had iron bosses, and brass or iron is standard on anything from the late Repulic onwards. Many choices for what the wood is faced, with, though: rawhide, leather, linen, or felt.

...If I started my own "gig" I'd need to pick a Legio....Do any of these stand out as a decent choice? Unfortunately there's just not enough information on the net about any of them (or any specific legion for that matter).

One excellent book is Lawrence Keppie's "The Making of the Roman Army". For starters, it covers the transition period between Caesar and Claudius that so many basic works just kind of skip over. And in the back it has a list of legions and their known histories. That should help a lot. But keep in mind that amost nothing in a basic set of reenactor's gear is legion-specific. Even shield emblems are mostly just picked from Trajan's Column or other artwork, and we don't really know what legion they are supposed to represent (if any!). So if you are working solo, you can call yourself III Augusta one day and X Fretensis the next, if you like, or just call yourself a typical Roman legionary! One thing to keep in mind is that if you are really bent on, say, Legio VII Claudia from Upper Moesia, you will spend most of your time explaining where that is. But folks are much more likely to be at least vaguely familiar with Britain, Germany, or even Syria.

Have fun!

Matthew

[Titus Juventius Tertius]

Excellent... now we're getting somewhere.



So that should be the shield I'm looking for yes? Where are they available? Every site I visit they don't seem to have that one up for sale (though the SoTW has a blank version).

As for the two sets of armor... that's exactly the goal. Some reenacting periods have a basic set that all or most of the troops used. WWII had two different variations for the Army (more like 6 or so, but only the two for your standard Infantry Divisions), then of course your dress uniforms, and so forth. If you were to reenact both the Army (Atlantic/Mediterranean) and Marines (Pacific) you'd have another two different sets. Then you're doomed if you did American and say German... because you'd have another countless number of uniforms.

So anyway, yes I do plan to eventually pick up a second later era set. I figure that the above set I mentioned (with Augustan style shield would be best for early on) and then the Segmentata, and a Gallic (G?) helmet would be good.

As for that belt... could you not use a later era belt like this and slide off the apron? You'd then have a fairly plain, metal stamped belt. Then when you do a later period, slide it back on? What was the purpose of the apron? You mention on your XX site that the Augustus period soldiers had two belts... but I don't see any example of that. Do you know of something existing that I could look at?

Thanks again for bearing my barrage of questions. I'm not one of these guys to jump into reenactment or anything for that matter, without knowing as much as I can first and getting the right equipment. Some people I would imagine dive in and then are clueless... and I don't want anything to discourage me.

As for the book you mentioned... I'll take a look at it. There's a site I frequent for Legio history information... have you seen it? Curious to know if their information is accurate:

http://www.livius.org/le-lh/legio/legions.htm

EDIT:

Have you ever put thought into making the Legio XX handbook into a .pdf or other text file for printing? Would be a nice off-net reference.

[Matthew Amt]

Excellent... now we're getting somewhere.

Yes, there's a link to that photo in my second post above!

So that should be the shield I'm looking for yes? Where are they available? Every site I visit they don't seem to have that one up for sale (though the SoTW has a blank version).

Decent finished shields may be hard to come by. Deepeeka's latest is pretty good, but they may offer only the straight-sided type. Same with the one by Daniyal. Shipping will be a beast... Soul of the Warrior's blank is excellent.

As for that belt... could you not use a later era belt like this and slide off the apron? You'd then have a fairly plain, metal stamped belt. Then when you do a later period, slide it back on?

Well, those plates are pretty firmly mid- to late-first century AD, and I also think they're cast a little too thick and heavy. Thin stamped sheet was more common for that general style. But no, for Caesar's era there is DARN little evidence for decorated belt plates, heck even for plain ones! So most groups won't go much farther than completely plain rectangles of sheet brass, tinned if you like, and maybe only on the front of the belt, not the back. That's the "safe" interpretation. On the belt you linked to, and other Indian-made belts, I really don't like the way the apron straps are made removable with a loop at the top like that. I think someone did come up with evidence that the general concept is legitimate, but I still don't think it is well-executed. On that particular apron, I have not seen any evidence for the form of the studs, and they are WAY too thick and heavy. There just aren't any off-the-shelf belts that I recommend at all, at the moment.

What was the purpose of the apron?

Bling and jingle!

There's a site I frequent for Legio history information... have you seen it? Curious to know if their information is accurate:

http://www.livius.org/le-lh/legio/legions.htm

Haven't really dug through it in any detail.

Have you ever put thought into making the Legio XX handbook into a .pdf or other text file for printing? Would be a nice off-net reference.

Feel free! Putting the Handbook on the web immediately made the old printed version obsolete. I don't update it nearly as often as I used to, but I still don't see much point in making a pdf that could soon be outdated. For better hard-copy references, get books!! I but stand on the shoulders of giants, namely all the published authors out there. Get Bishop and Coulston, every volume of JRMES you can find, the Vindonissa catalog, Graham Sumner's Ospreys and his "Roman Army: Wars of the Empire", both volumes of Lorica Segmentata (by Mike Bishop and Mike Thomas)(both actually available online), etc., etc.

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/bibliog.html

Vale,

Matthew