Blue Uniforms?

[Theodosius the Great]

The colour is 'Venetian', therefore the same shade as the blue circus faction. So look at chariot drivers for the blues.

By coincidence I came across this example the other day of an original 5th century manuscript from Egypt :



You can read more details in the article here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charioteer_Papyrus

The article says it shows the Red and Green factions though I would swear it showed blue tunics. Colors may not translate that well though when they're digitized.

~Theo

[Graham Sumner]

Conor wrote:

I have learnt that the roman army wore red tunics, but also wore blue, green, and about any other colour possible to dye.

Not really. They could in theory have worn any colour possible to dye but the evidence does not support this. This shows that the range of colours connected with the Roman Army is limited and even over a large time scale is remarkably consistent.

However Legionaries mainly wore blue

I have found no evidence for that at all. I would imagine that the RMRS would also dearly love to find some evidence for Legionary blue tunics as well but as far as I know they have not either. Otherwise Crispus would be the first to tell me.

possibly marines

Yes, possibly.

even though some say otherwise on the marine issue.

Yes, other evidence suggests red /orange as an alternative.

soldiers may have worn odd colours in groups making a multicoloured scene if ever was to see which may or may not look un-professional.

I found no evidence for this but I do know the source of the statement! "Rainbow warriors".

Thank you once again for all of your extensive research and development and your help and advice on the subject.

Thanks...... but have you read my books?

Graham.

[Primus Pilus]

It seems I stil do not have a full understanding although I thought I did! the legionarii wearing blue information was gathered from simply typing in 'blue' in 'search our site' on the RMRA website. It then came up with legionaries saying they wore blue tunics.


Thankyou
Conor Maher

[Matthew Amt]

Well, partly it's your research method. I could put up a website saying that legionaries wore swimfins and tutus, and if everyone else said there was no evidence for such a thing, you could still look at my website saying that they did! It's sort of a circular argument, using possible errors to prove themselves. (No disrespect meant to RMRS at all!! I'm just using an extreme hypothetical for educational purposes!)

What we're saying is that if you use *more* sources, notably reputable ones with the latest scholarly research, you will find a rather different answer. Here on RAT, though, it's even easier: for clothing colors, just read anything Graham Sumner has to say! But his books will give you a much more thorough answer.

The best evidence is what the Romans left behind: archeological finds, artwork, and written descriptions. All can be ambiguous or scanty, but we try to use as much as we can to come to the most likely conclusion. Or sometimes any conclusion at all! Most good research questions your answers rather than answering your questions.

Keep at it!

Matthew

[Graham Sumner]

Matthew Amt wrote

Here on RAT, though, it's even easier: for clothing colors, just read anything Graham Sumner has to say! But his books will give you a much more thorough answer.

Thanks Matthew, :oops: pssst, The cheque is in the post

The best evidence is what the Romans left behind: archeological finds, artwork, and written descriptions. All can be ambiguous or scanty, but we try to use as much as we can to come to the most likely conclusion. Or sometimes any conclusion at all! Most good research questions your answers rather than answering your questions.

True indeed. A well known authority on the Roman Army once told me that he knew less now about the Romans than when he started studying them twenty years before!

Conor wrote;

It seems I stil do not have a full understanding although I thought I did!

Do not worry. Even if you think you have a clear idea about something, a new discovery next week could completely change your mind!

It then came up with legionaries saying they wore blue tunics.

Now that would be something and would certainly change my mind but I presume you mean modern day legionaries!

Conor if you think this subject is confusing, you still have leather armour and flat or dished shields to look forward too! :lol:

Graham.

[Primus Pilus]

haha, thankyou grayham I have never read any of yor books but I shall try to find them!


Conor Maher

[Matthew Amt]

Conor if you think this subject is confusing, you still have leather armour and flat or dished shields to look forward too! :lol:

Now, that's just EVIL! Conor, the warning here is, "Be afraid. Be VERY afraid." (Okay, mostly just be afraid of the twisted sense of humor common on RAT!)

Actually, what this board needs is a good *index*, as well as a search engine. A pinned thread with a list of informative threads on various topics. I link a few from my site, here and there, but if we could just point new folks to a nice "table of contents" it would save all kinds of time. Not that we aren't happy to rehash some old topics. Sometimes. Okay, once in a while. Well, maybe not often. See my point?

Oh, Conor, been here?

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/

Might as well blow my own horn, too. Enjoy!

Matthew

[M. Demetrius]

An index would be great! It would also be an absolutely horrific project!

I'll get to it as soon as I get all the cats herded. C'mon, Buddy, let's start with the calicos, then add the Russian Blues--

[*gallops off on his faithful gingham dog, Buddy (a St. Bernard mix rescue dog with a spiked mohawk) in search of the scattered calico cats.*]

[Primus Pilus]

Ok, I looked at the website, however I have not seen anything about blue tunics, is there something I have missed?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

An index would be great! It would also be an absolutely horrific project!

I'll get to it as soon as I get all the cats herded. C'mon, Buddy, let's start with the calicos, then add the Russian Blues--

[*gallops off on his faithful gingham dog, Buddy (a St. Bernard mix rescue dog with a spiked mohawk) in search of the scattered calico cats.*]

Hey good effort dude! :o 8) "When the going gets tough, the tough get going" is soooootrue! 8)

Once all tha cats are in the corral and you've finished the milking, will that index be in Alphabetical or chronological order? Perhaps you should do both!!!! :| | P

[jkaler48]

When I went to Catholic school in 1957 we wore blue uniforms but on feast days we wore white. There is some possibility of different color
uniforms with the legions. Red for combat and drill white for parades and special occasions and even some other undyed color as a garrison fatique uniform. (like the blue work uniform worn. in WW2 by the US Army) All speculation of course but if different color uniforms were used
it would just make it more difficult to interpet the scanty evidence.

[Matthew Amt]

Ok, I looked at the website, however I have not seen anything about blue tunics, is there something I have missed?

That's what we're trying to tell you: There IS no good evidence for legionaries in blue tunics! Not trying to say it's impossible, just doesn't seem to be the most likely according to what we know.

Red for combat and drill white for parades and special occasions and even some other undyed color as a garrison fatique uniform.

Interestingly, the ONLY first century Roman soldier found with fabric on his body is the Herculaneum soldier, and as we've just discovered that fabric is apparently orangey-red (sounds like madder, to me). But he's NOT in armor, nor going into combat. Curious, eh?

Valete,

Matthew

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Actually, I don't see why the big mysery about red is so overblown.
The concept of Romans wearing red more than likely originates from the 'handed down memories of the species, and is born out by evidence, how ever scanty it may be......
So the likely hood of other colours being used is probably not unlikely, just there is
possibly never going to be any physical evidence for it. Or perhaps there is, it is just locked away in the catacoombs of one of the many museums in the world, or perhaps someones private collection....

Anyway, blue is as good as any colour.

[M. Demetrius]

Another cache of wax tablets like found in Vindolanda may contain the "Dress Orders for Tunics" memo from the Emperor. That would settle it, but really, knowing how narrowly many of us tend to all think about it, it would only settle it for the decade or so to which the tablet refers. All other decades and centuries would still be up for debate.

[Primus Pilus]

I am very very confused now. I think if I re-read everything and gather all teh information I may be able to make my own assumption of the matter.