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Rome versus Pyrrhus
#43
I would agree with Antiochus/Steven as to what the ideal/theoretical splitting of age grpoups might be, but also with Sean that in practise it wouldn't necessarily work out so. Without reading Rosenstein, I would have to say that such a proposition is extremely unlikely, not least for population statistics reasons, and the fact that soldiers, even the conscripted peasants of the Punic wars, could serve up to twenty years ! The literary evidence too says otherwise ( witness the career of Spurius Ligustinus, called up once more in his 51st year- the senate having decreed that no-one under 51 should be exempt).

Note that this is an exception to Antiochus' theoretical call-up ages !

Polybius too, in his detailed account, clearly implies that 'adjustments' were made:
Polyb VI.20
The division and appointment of the tribunes having thus been so made that each legion has the same number of officers, those of each legion take their seats apart, and they draw lots for the tribes, and summon them singly in the order of the lottery. From each tribe they first of all select four lads of more or less the same age and physique. [note the more or less] When these are brought forward the officers of the first legion have first choice, those of the second,second choice, those of the third, third, and those of the fourth last. Another batch of four is now brought forward, and this time the officers of the second legion have first choice and so on, those of the first choosing last. A third batch having been brought forward the tribunes of the third legion choose first, and those of the second last. By thus continuing to give each legion first choice in turn, each gets men of the same standard. When they have chosen the number determined on — that is when the strength of each legion is brought up to four thousand two hundred, or in times of exceptional danger to five thousand — the old system was to choose the cavalry after the four thousand two hundred infantry, but they now choose them first, the censor selecting them according to their wealth; and three hundred are assigned to each legion.

21 The enrolment having been completed in this manner, those of the tribunes on whom this duty falls collect the newly-enrolled soldiers, and picking out of the whole body a single man whom they think the most suitable make him take the oath that he will obey his officers and execute their orders as far as is in his power. Then the others come forward and each in his turn takes his oath simply that he will do the same as the first man.

At the same time the consuls send their orders to the allied cities in Italy which they wish to contribute troops, stating the numbers required and the day and place at which the men selected must present themselves. The magistrates, choosing the men and administering the oath in the manner above described, send them off, appointing a commander and a paymaster.

The tribunes in Rome, after administering the oath, fix for each legion a day and place at which the men are to present themselves without arms and then dismiss them. When they come to the rendezvous, they choose the youngest and poorest to form the velites; the next to them are made hastati; those in the prime of life principes; and the oldest of all triarii, these being the names among the Romans of the four classes in each legion distinct in age [ note that Polybius does not nominate specific ages - implying that numbers required were the governing factor, and a certain amount of approximate 'fudging' of ages went on] and equipment. They divide them so that the senior men known as triarii number six hundred, the principes twelve hundred, the hastati twelve hundred, the rest, consisting of the youngest, being velites. [ evidently they worked backwards - the most senior 600 becoming the Triarii and so on ] If the legion consists of more than four thousand men, they divide accordingly, except as regards the triarii, the number of whom is always the same.
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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Messages In This Thread
Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Timotheus - 04-29-2009, 02:01 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by M. Demetrius - 04-29-2009, 02:08 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Timotheus - 04-29-2009, 03:35 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Matthew Amt - 04-29-2009, 07:53 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Phalanx300 - 04-30-2009, 06:37 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Quintius Clavus - 05-01-2009, 12:26 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 05-07-2009, 03:41 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Theo - 05-08-2009, 08:36 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Matthew Amt - 05-09-2009, 01:13 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by SigniferOne - 05-12-2009, 03:02 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Paullus Scipio - 05-12-2009, 04:46 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 05-13-2009, 04:51 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Epictetus - 05-13-2009, 05:49 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Jesper D - 05-15-2009, 01:25 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 06-28-2009, 05:29 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Robert Vermaat - 06-28-2009, 11:17 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Jesper D - 06-28-2009, 01:54 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 07-01-2009, 07:36 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Jesper D - 07-01-2009, 10:15 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-01-2009, 05:21 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Jesper D - 07-01-2009, 10:50 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Epictetus - 07-02-2009, 07:36 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-02-2009, 07:48 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Jesper D - 07-02-2009, 08:52 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-02-2009, 09:27 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 07-04-2009, 06:18 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 07-04-2009, 06:20 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-04-2009, 10:48 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-04-2009, 12:46 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by eugene - 07-04-2009, 04:50 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-04-2009, 05:55 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 07-05-2009, 03:25 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 07-06-2009, 03:01 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-06-2009, 09:09 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 07-11-2009, 02:48 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-11-2009, 05:52 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 07-19-2009, 06:02 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-19-2009, 06:02 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Muzzaguchi - 07-20-2009, 11:09 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Paullus Scipio - 07-24-2009, 12:49 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Sean Manning - 07-24-2009, 04:00 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Paullus Scipio - 07-24-2009, 04:48 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Sean Manning - 07-25-2009, 05:12 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Paullus Scipio - 07-26-2009, 07:51 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 07-30-2009, 03:03 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Paullus Scipio - 07-30-2009, 06:40 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 07-30-2009, 09:17 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 08-21-2009, 04:22 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 08-21-2009, 09:45 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 08-24-2009, 06:42 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 08-24-2009, 06:54 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 08-24-2009, 08:48 PM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 08-29-2009, 05:53 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by D B Campbell - 08-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Re: Rome versus Pyrrhus - by antiochus - 10-03-2009, 04:51 AM
Rome versus Pyrrhus - by Spartan JKM - 03-09-2014, 08:09 PM

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