07-02-2009, 08:52 AM
I did read the chapter 11 of book XXVII in english, but I didn't see any mention of anything similar to Equo Privato so I went on to have a look at it in latin.
"[11] Prodigia quoque priusquam ab urbe consules proficiscerentur procurari placuit. in Albano monte tacta de caelo erant signum Iouis arborque templo propinqua, et Ostiae lacus, et Capuae murus Fortunaeque aedis, et Sinuessae murus portaque. haec de caelo tacta: cruentam etiam fluxisse aquam Albanam quidam auctores erant, et Romae intus in cella aedis Fortis Fortunae de capite signum quod in corona erat in manum sponte sua prolapsum. et Priuerni satis constabat bouem locutum uolturiumque frequenti foro in tabernam deuolasse, et Sinuessae natum ambiguo inter marem ac feminam sexu infantem, quos androgynos uolgus, ut pleraque, faciliore ad duplicanda uerba Graeco sermone appellat, et lacte pluuisse et cum elephanti capite puerum natum. ea prodigia hostiis maioribus procurata, et supplicatio circa omnia puluinaria, obsecratio in unum diem indicta; et decretum ut C. Hostilius praetor ludos Apollini sicut iis annis uoti factique erant uoueret faceretque. per eos dies et censoribus creandis Q. Fuluius consul comitia habuit. creati censores ambo qui nondum consules fuerant, M. Cornelius Cethegus P. Sempronius Tuditanus. ii censores ut agrum Campanum fruendum locarent ex auctoritate patrum latum ad plebem est plebesque sciuit. senatus lectionem contentio inter censores de principe legendo tenuit. Sempronii lectio erat; ceterum Cornelius morem traditum a patribus sequendum aiebat ut qui primus censor ex iis qui uiuerent fuisset, eum principem legerent; is T. Manlius Torquatus erat; Sempronius cui di sortem legendi dedissent ei ius liberum eosdem dedisse deos; se id suo arbitrio facturum lecturumque Q. Fabium Maximum quem tum principem Romanae ciuitatis esse uel Hannibale iudice uicturus esset. cum diu certatum uerbis esset, concedente collega lectus a Sempronio princeps in senatum Q. Fabius Maximus consul. inde alius lectus senatus octo praeteritis, inter quos M. Caecilius Metellus erat, infamis auctor deserendae Italiae post Cannensem cladem. in equestribus quoque notis eadem seruata causa, sed erant perpauci quos ea infamia attingeret; illis omnibus—et multi erant—adempti equi qui Cannensium legionum equites in Sicilia erant. addiderunt acerbitati etiam tempus, ne praeterita stipendia procederent iis quae equo publico emeruerant, sed dena stipendia equis priuatis facerent. magnum praeterea numerum eorum conquisiuerunt qui equo merere deberent, atque ex iis qui principio eius belli septemdecim annos nati fuerant neque militauerant omnes aerarios fecerunt. locauerunt inde reficienda quae circa forum incendio consumpta erant, septem tabernas, macellum, atrium regium."
Thanks to the latin library ( http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/ ) for providing free access to classical texts in latin!
The interesting part is:
"in equestribus quoque notis eadem seruata causa, sed erant perpauci quos ea infamia attingeret; illis omnibus—et multi erant—adempti equi qui Cannensium legionum equites in Sicilia erant. addiderunt acerbitati etiam tempus, ne praeterita stipendia procederent iis quae equo publico emeruerant, sed dena stipendia equis priuatis facerent. magnum praeterea numerum eorum conquisiuerunt qui equo merere deberent, atque ex iis qui principio eius belli septemdecim annos nati fuerant neque militauerant omnes aerarios fecerunt."
Aha! He uses the term "equis priuatis" this is plural of equo privato yes? The translation I read ( http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/Livy27.html ) doesn't go into specifics....I'm glad to see that you are right! But not only that, look at the next sentence!
The translation I read of the last sentence is :
"A large number of men were discovered who ought to have served, and all those who had reached the age of seventeen at the commencement of the war and had not done any military service were degraded to the aerarii."
This seems really interesting, as I understand it the latin specifically reads "who ought to have served on horse". How do we explain this?? He goes on to say that these ppl were "degraded" to aerarii i.e. the poor ppl that paid a tax instead of doing military service. Observe that Livius a few sentences previously said that few Equites were stricken off the Equestrian ranks. As I see it we have ppl here that should have served on horse(if I got that right), they were many, avoided the draft and were punished by being thrown out of the class system, i.e. these ppl had to be of the higher classes otherwise this woulkdnt be much of a punishment, and in with the poor.... Why do I get the feeling that these were Equites Equo Privato i.e. plebeians of class I? And they seem to be expected to serve as horsemen by this date. Speculation of course but reasonable speculation I would say...
"[11] Prodigia quoque priusquam ab urbe consules proficiscerentur procurari placuit. in Albano monte tacta de caelo erant signum Iouis arborque templo propinqua, et Ostiae lacus, et Capuae murus Fortunaeque aedis, et Sinuessae murus portaque. haec de caelo tacta: cruentam etiam fluxisse aquam Albanam quidam auctores erant, et Romae intus in cella aedis Fortis Fortunae de capite signum quod in corona erat in manum sponte sua prolapsum. et Priuerni satis constabat bouem locutum uolturiumque frequenti foro in tabernam deuolasse, et Sinuessae natum ambiguo inter marem ac feminam sexu infantem, quos androgynos uolgus, ut pleraque, faciliore ad duplicanda uerba Graeco sermone appellat, et lacte pluuisse et cum elephanti capite puerum natum. ea prodigia hostiis maioribus procurata, et supplicatio circa omnia puluinaria, obsecratio in unum diem indicta; et decretum ut C. Hostilius praetor ludos Apollini sicut iis annis uoti factique erant uoueret faceretque. per eos dies et censoribus creandis Q. Fuluius consul comitia habuit. creati censores ambo qui nondum consules fuerant, M. Cornelius Cethegus P. Sempronius Tuditanus. ii censores ut agrum Campanum fruendum locarent ex auctoritate patrum latum ad plebem est plebesque sciuit. senatus lectionem contentio inter censores de principe legendo tenuit. Sempronii lectio erat; ceterum Cornelius morem traditum a patribus sequendum aiebat ut qui primus censor ex iis qui uiuerent fuisset, eum principem legerent; is T. Manlius Torquatus erat; Sempronius cui di sortem legendi dedissent ei ius liberum eosdem dedisse deos; se id suo arbitrio facturum lecturumque Q. Fabium Maximum quem tum principem Romanae ciuitatis esse uel Hannibale iudice uicturus esset. cum diu certatum uerbis esset, concedente collega lectus a Sempronio princeps in senatum Q. Fabius Maximus consul. inde alius lectus senatus octo praeteritis, inter quos M. Caecilius Metellus erat, infamis auctor deserendae Italiae post Cannensem cladem. in equestribus quoque notis eadem seruata causa, sed erant perpauci quos ea infamia attingeret; illis omnibus—et multi erant—adempti equi qui Cannensium legionum equites in Sicilia erant. addiderunt acerbitati etiam tempus, ne praeterita stipendia procederent iis quae equo publico emeruerant, sed dena stipendia equis priuatis facerent. magnum praeterea numerum eorum conquisiuerunt qui equo merere deberent, atque ex iis qui principio eius belli septemdecim annos nati fuerant neque militauerant omnes aerarios fecerunt. locauerunt inde reficienda quae circa forum incendio consumpta erant, septem tabernas, macellum, atrium regium."
Thanks to the latin library ( http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/ ) for providing free access to classical texts in latin!
The interesting part is:
"in equestribus quoque notis eadem seruata causa, sed erant perpauci quos ea infamia attingeret; illis omnibus—et multi erant—adempti equi qui Cannensium legionum equites in Sicilia erant. addiderunt acerbitati etiam tempus, ne praeterita stipendia procederent iis quae equo publico emeruerant, sed dena stipendia equis priuatis facerent. magnum praeterea numerum eorum conquisiuerunt qui equo merere deberent, atque ex iis qui principio eius belli septemdecim annos nati fuerant neque militauerant omnes aerarios fecerunt."
Aha! He uses the term "equis priuatis" this is plural of equo privato yes? The translation I read ( http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/txt/ah/Livy/Livy27.html ) doesn't go into specifics....I'm glad to see that you are right! But not only that, look at the next sentence!
The translation I read of the last sentence is :
"A large number of men were discovered who ought to have served, and all those who had reached the age of seventeen at the commencement of the war and had not done any military service were degraded to the aerarii."
This seems really interesting, as I understand it the latin specifically reads "who ought to have served on horse". How do we explain this?? He goes on to say that these ppl were "degraded" to aerarii i.e. the poor ppl that paid a tax instead of doing military service. Observe that Livius a few sentences previously said that few Equites were stricken off the Equestrian ranks. As I see it we have ppl here that should have served on horse(if I got that right), they were many, avoided the draft and were punished by being thrown out of the class system, i.e. these ppl had to be of the higher classes otherwise this woulkdnt be much of a punishment, and in with the poor.... Why do I get the feeling that these were Equites Equo Privato i.e. plebeians of class I? And they seem to be expected to serve as horsemen by this date. Speculation of course but reasonable speculation I would say...
Cheers,
Jesper
Jesper
