Quintus Carminius Ingenuus

[Johnny Shumate]

Dear RATers,
I need as much help on this cavalryman as I can get....!
Photos of the horse harness, standard, shield, basically everything is needed.
Drawings, photos would be a great help...!
Here is the link on the image bank:
http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,94/

Also, would the shield be slung across his shoulders as he holds the standard..?

Thanks!
Johnny

[Praefectusclassis]

Let's start with a hi-res version of the imagebase photo.

[Johnny Shumate]

Any reconstructions of the sword and scabbard..? Helmet..?
Johnny

[Peroni]

I think it would be safe to choose a typical weiler type helmet for the reconstruction of this guy. Or possibly a helmet of the type depicted on the similar tombstone of Bassus.

The harness phalerae are the same as depicted on the Longinus Sdapeze stele..
http://www.armamentaria.com/store/index ... cts_id=269




For the sword.. It's basically a spatha with what appears to be a single locket plate in the same form as a bullseye/concentric ring belt plate.

Peter Connolly did an illustration of this sword type IIRC in G&R @ War. Here's a reconstruction..

[Graham Sumner]

I would have him wearing a long sleeved tunic, with turned back cuffs, in anything from a salmon-pink via orange to a rust brown colour.

Graham.

[caiusbeerquitius]

Two more or less contemporary cavalry tombstones from Augsburg show white tunics, one with red clavi, and one white, worn with red trousers and black shoes:

[Graham Sumner]

Thanks for posting those images Christian.
I can not see any clavi on the lower picture and the 'white' tunic looks yellow to me, bronze armour perhaps. The red trousers could be a flesh colour. Of course you can not rely on photos, nothing beats seeing the originals!

Are these tombstones with details of the colours published anywhere?

Graham.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Actually Peronis, the hilt of the sword looks more like the Hod hill sword.
Just my 2 asses worth. :wink:

[caiusbeerquitius]

Graham: Not I don´t think they are published properly.
Indeed the rider wears a short bronze cuirass (probably scale). Underneath a white tunic is visible, and some fragmets of red / brown-red clavi can be seen as well. The calvi can be followed, if you look carefully on the original, one in front of the leg, and one on the back. Folds are indicated bz yellow lines, also the outline of the tunic, which covers the thigh almost completely
The trousers on the other figure are dark red/brown, so rather not flesh. Trousers on cavalrymen make sense, IMO.

The stones are tuft, that´s why the colour was preserved. The surface of the stone is so rough, that they had to be covered with gypsum, which absorbed all the paint. So even 2000 years in wet ground preserved them very well.
Here´s a detail of the tunic:

[caiusbeerquitius]

Forgot: Also interesting is the fact that the helmet is reddish, while the armour is yellowish. Bronze / brass?

[caiusbeerquitius]

Found sthg.:

M. Schleiermacher, Römische Reitergrabsteine, 1984. 66ff. and #1-3

[Graham Sumner]

Hi Christian.

Thanks I see what you mean now. However compared with other cavalry tombstones such as Togito and Ingenuus himself we would not expect to see the cavalry tunic worn at or below knee length. Do you think what we are seeing in white with yellow folds might be the saddlecloth? Therefore the red 'clavi' which as you say are both in front and behind the leg could be an outline of the leg or traces of colour for the bracae -trousers.

There are certainly images of cavalry sculptures minus bracae-trousers but I agree with you and I know what I would wear!

I have seen the other sculpture before but this one is new to me. Thanks again for posting it. Laudes would be awarded if we still did that!

Graham.

[Johnny Shumate]

I love it when I get help from the pros..!
Thanks for the photos and information. Jasper has me on a Roman cavalryman project and I wanted more input than my personal library....
Johnny

[caiusbeerquitius]

A lighter shade of white plus a slightly raised area suggests something roughly like this, where green indicates the saddle cloth, white the tunic (IMO)