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Ultra Late Roman/associated Germanic Belts
#1
Ive been browising some finds and some of them stick out as odd to me, It seems like the very wide belts with square belt buckles are common up until the mid 5th c. After that time the last of the Roman troops seem to begin to wear mostly Frankish and Barbarc styles.

These vary from 4 1/2" outside width to 2" outside width (gepidic and hunnish are often pretty thin, east german cultures go really thin)

Ive surveyed many pieces and will post a few examples here:

Met. Cat # 17.192.145 The buckle from the Vermand treasure is one of the widest and most lavish in engraving and workmaship, this is about 4" outside width, and might take a 2 1/2" or so belt (its set up funny) This is late 4th c. even, and is from the grave of an actual military man, probably a Foederatus of high rank.

Met cat. 1990.184 This one is Gepidic and is 5 in. long, it is around 2" wide and would take about a 1 1/2" belt. This one is 5th c.

Visigothic buckles are in a range from taking a 1 1/2" belt to taking a 2 1/2" belt, some are VERY large and heavy e.g. cat. # 1988.305ab

Thus it seems that in the late Roman army one would have seen a variety of belts, probably even starting around 370 AD, im sure that by 450 AD many various styles were in use. Just thought this might be of interest to some people. The very large square buckles seem to go out of fashion by 460, im not seeing them much after that.
aka., John Shook
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#2
I forgot to throw some Frankish stuff in:

Cat. # 17.192.62 takes a very narrow belt, and itself is less than 2" outside diameter, I would assume the belt would have to narrow to the 3/4" it would have to be.

Im omitting anything past the early 6th c. as immaterial to what im looking at. I just wanted to post the info, take from it what you would like.

On many of these I am assuming a much wider belt which narrows to fit.
aka., John Shook
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#3
You can find good replicas of migration era belt plates, buckles, etc..from HR-Replikate in the link below :

http://www.hr-replikate.de/katalog/inde ... g=en&typ=6

And for the later Frankish-Carolingian period you can click this link :

http://www.hr-replikate.de/katalog/inde ... g=en&typ=6

Quote:Thus it seems that in the late Roman army one would have seen a variety of belts, probably even starting around 370 AD, im sure that by 450 AD many various styles were in use. Just thought this might be of interest to some people. The very large square buckles seem to go out of fashion by 460, im not seeing them much after that.

Yep. Again, the collapse of the Fabricae system would help explain the shift to Germanic gear in general, not just weapons and armor.

~Theo
Jaime
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#4
Migration art is actually a secondary period of expertise for me, that said those belt parts from there are GREAT. They are virtually indistinguishable from the most common originals, I think ill pick a set up for my 451-484 impression.

does anyone know what width a late 5th c. Baldric should have (im looking more exact than general)

Would there be any interest in me posting some writings of mine on various migration era topics? I should have some done by mid May. I am currently writing a very basic one on Gene Flow and Genetic Drift taking a part in the period. I will ha more gear related writings in a bit, possibly something based on Iordanes as well.
aka., John Shook
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#5
I thought baldrics were out of fashion by the fifth century.


~Theo
Jaime
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#6
I found that one out the hard way, I was looking for depictions and it seemed nobody had one on! That makes life a little bit easier, now I dont need to cut up a bunch more leather
aka., John Shook
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