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Theodosius the Great · 01-18-2005, 05:45 PM

Avete, 
 
Does anybody know why the Romans shaved off their beards ? 
 
If I'm not mistaken, they were the only Europeans to do so. The only other Mediterranean people to share that trait were the Egyptians. I understand that there were exceptions in both countries, but being clean-shaven was the rule. 
 
Did the Romans consider beards unclean or barbaric ? 
 
I don't see how they could consider them barbaric since the Greeks were bearded. 
 
-Theo

01-18-2005, 08:24 PM

One word: fashion. Actually though, the romans didn't always shave their beards. Beards came into fashion during the 2nd century. Look at all of the bearded legionnaires on Trajan's column.

Theodosius the Great · 01-18-2005, 08:39 PM

Quote:<hr>One word: fashion<hr> 
 
It had occured to me that maybe they were imitating Alexander the Great. 
 
But is it certain that it was simply fashion ? No hygienic reasons ? Because that fashion certainly lasted for generations. 
 
Quote:<hr>Beards came into fashion during the 2nd century<hr> 
 
Yes, I know, with Hadrian adopting it after his visit to Greece. The clean-shaven look didn't reemerge till Constantine brought it back into vogue.

Uwe Bahr · 01-19-2005, 06:14 AM

Quote:<hr>Look at all of the bearded legionnaires on Trajan's column<hr> 
 
The Traian's column is not really a good example for bearded legionaries. Indeed up to Hadrian all Roman emperors were clean shaven: Augustus, Tiberius, Caius, Claudius, Nero, Galba, Otho, Vitellius, Vespasian,Titus, Domitian, Nerva and Traian and the monuments including the Traian' s column show the soldiers - following the fashion of their emperors - unbearded. 
 
With Hadrian the fashion changed, his successors wore full beards: Antoninus Pius, Verus, Marcus Aurelius (consequently on Marcus' Column the very most soldiers are shown bearded), Commodus, ... IIRC this fashion remained standard for the soldiers' emperors in 3rd century and it seemed to change again with the Christian emperors.

Uwe Bahr · 01-19-2005, 06:26 AM

About Augustus I have to make 2 exceptions: in a German TV program I recently saw a coin showing the young Octavius with full beard. They explained it with his mourning because of the murder of his foster father Caesar. At the end of his reign, after the Varian disaster it was said that Augustus did not cut his hair or shave his beard. Thus one motive for wearing a beard besides fashion could have been mourning. 
 
Also Nero is not totally clean shaven, he is mostly shown with side-burns. 
 
Greets - Uwe Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 1/19/05 9:01 am

**Robert Vermaat** · 01-19-2005, 12:52 PM

Quote:<hr>If I'm not mistaken, they were the only Europeans to do so. <hr> 
Were they? How about the Celts? Enormous moustaches, but mostly no beards afaik. 
 
But if Romans shaved their beards, than why did some stop in Late Roman times? Valete, 
Valerius/Robert 
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]fectienses seniores[/url]

Carlton Bach · 01-19-2005, 08:18 PM

Some Etruscans shaved 
 
It looks like Minoans and Myceneans did. 
 
The Celts shaved their beards but kept their moustaches 
 
the Tollund man was clean-shaven 
 
'razors' (or what archeologists think are razors) are a kind of 'lead fossil' of the north European bronze age 
 
Figures on the Gundestrup cauldron are shaved 
 
I think it's mostly a case of 'some shave, some don't' and for most Romans, shaving was part and parcel of good grooming (hence its neglect in mourning). Also, it seems that in older times, Romans went bearded. otherwise, where do they get a cognomen like 'Ahenobarbus'? 
 
Volker

01-20-2005, 05:54 AM

At the end of the Republic, Cicero mentions in one of his speaches, I think against Appius Claudius Pulcher (pretty boy Appius), if memory serves, which it usually doesn't, that in the Good Old Days, the Romans wore beards. 
 
Kevin

Crispvs · 01-21-2005, 12:26 AM

As Kevin says, the Romans thought of their honourable ancestors as bearded, hence the common depictions of a bearded Marcus Brutus. At least one statue exists of Nero which shows him with a beard and there is a bearded soldier shown on one of the Cancalleria reliefs dating to Domitian's reign. Getting into the second century, as Uwe suggests, Trajan's column mainly shows Roman soldiers who are clean shaven but there are still some who have beards. The mid-second century Croy Hill relief shows three soldiers: two are clean shaven but the man in the middle has a full beard. If we accept the idea that the lower classes copy the fashions of the upper classes (until the 1960s anyway), depictions of emperors and other extremely wealthy people might be instructive. Throughout the first century BC, hair was straight and reasonable short and beards were not worn (except by the dear departed M. Brutus, whose sculptors were obviously too busy to realise that shaving was the current fashion). By the middle of the 1st century AD curly hair seems to have been a bit more fashionable; perhaps beards too, a fashion maybe followed by Nero, princeps and self proclaimed king of style and fashion. By the end of the first century Trajan preferred a generous bowl cut and shaven cheeks and chin but within a few years Hadrian had cut the hair back a bit and grown a beard. This must have been a popular idea as for the next sixty years or so big, curly perms were in, along with big curly beards, which gradually straightened out into Septimius Severus and Clodius Albinus' long and somewhat straggly beards. Pretty soon however, the usurper emperors of the third century (and their men, presumably) were getting crew cuts and were clipping their beards short. Before Diocletian had been on the throne for long however, hair was starting to get a bit longer and beards a bit fuller. By the time Constantine had the one and only new piece of sculpture used on his arch commishioned, beards were quite full again, although the new emperor himself, realising that Christianity was the new fashion, shaved off his tetrarchic beard and grew his fashionable bowl cut a bit longer to look more like Christ (that is, the third to fourth century version of Christ whose depiction does a good job of hiding any reference to Judaism or the Jews). One imagines that a lot of men followed this fashion. I won't go on but I am sure you get the picture by now. 
Obviously not all men would have followed the upper class fashions to the letter, but as the Croy Hill relief suggests, some of that fashion may have filtered down to every level of society. The two flanking soldiers aren't bothered but the soldier in the middle exhibits a style which looks quite reminiscent of his emperor: Antoninus Pius. Could this image speak of a reality for perhaps all of Roman history? That perhaps those who could or could be bothered followed the fashion, and the others did whatever seemed right to them, a little like today. 
 
Does this help or does it just confuse the picture? 
 
Crispvs Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=crispvs>Crispvs</A> at: 1/21/05 2:04 am

Tarbicus · 01-21-2005, 07:56 AM

Here's a link to a phot of a bust of a Gallic chieftain. 
 
Photo: www.hp.uab.edu/image_arch...bust06.jpg 
Description: www.hp.uab.edu/image_arch.../ulep.html 
 
I think his hair is interesting, as it's not the long style I always associated with Gauls. In fact, it's very Roman, but it is 1st C. I'm just wondering if he was so Romanised, is the moustache Gallic, or could it be also a Roman thing? Or maybe he doesn't look Roman at all, and that's hoe the Gauls always looked Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=tarbicus>Tarbicus</A> at: 1/21/05 11:37 am

Carlton Bach · 01-21-2005, 05:14 PM

He may well be a Romanised Celt - after all, he had a bust of himself made. Short hair and moustaches show up long after in the western provinces. A 3rd century gladiator mosaic from Mainz (I think) shows spectators dressed in fringed tunics and sagum-style cloaks with short hair and moustaches. A lot like him, in fact. 
 
That said, there is really no reason to assume all Celts wore their hair long. That's something of a stereotype that stresses their 'differentness'.

Ebusitanus · 01-26-2005, 11:55 AM

All vase and monument despictions I have seen about Iberians and even Celt-Iberians were clean shaven.

Theodosius the Great · 01-26-2005, 12:19 PM

Quote:<hr>All vase and monument despictions I have seen about Iberians and even Celt-Iberians were clean shaven. <hr> 
 
I've noticed that too, but they always show warriors. I think they're probably very young men who can't even grow beards yet. Are there any chieftains depicted ?

Ebusitanus · 01-27-2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:<hr>I've noticed that too, but they always show warriors. I think they're probably very young men who can't even grow beards yet. Are there any chieftains depicted ? <hr> 
 
While IÃƒâ€šÃ‚Â´m sure maybe some of the despictions show teenagers, it would be quite far fetched to say all despictions are of teens, from Hispalis to Numantia. Furthermore, I would be very cautious in saying that scale or mail armored warriors would be of the youngest type as such armor I would think would go first to the "Big shots".

Theodosius the Great · 01-27-2005, 02:59 PM

Good point .

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