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Our new cheiroballista...
#48
Salve, Nerva:

Why in the world would you not have a hand-held torsion machine? For one thing, a bow of the power needed to be effective in combat takes a lifetime of training, as you will see if you examine bow cultures such as the Steppe nomads and the Medieval archers. They trained from early childhood. A small hand-spanned machines gives the user a relatively easy to utilize device as much or more power than a hand bow. Romans were not known for proficiency in archery, hence the heavy use of auxilia for archery troops, unless I am wildly wrong.

Actually, a well made composite bow is not an easy thing to construct, and traditionally takes years to build, if we can trust the work of still living Korean bowyers and other composite builders. A small torsion machine is relatively easy to build in comparison.

What do you think the Xantan machine was used for? A child's toy? Looks very much like a lethal combat weapon to me. Perhaps it did have a tiny winch on the back, or one that attached like medival seige crossbows, but that is just my opinion.

If you can get Alan to contribute, excellent. HE never seems to, though.

Dane







Quote:Salve Derek!

You say you agree with everything Randi has said, so you are expressing an opinion and not a hypothesis or theory based on any published research. The only serious scientific research that I'm aware of has been done by both Eric Marsden and Alan Wilkins. Now this research was not subject to wild imagination, personal agenda or hairs on the back of their neck, this was research conducted from the ground up. They translated to original sources, designed, built and tested and re-tested working machines, not just drawings in a book.

As for the expansion of the springs, how do you then explain the Lyon machine frame with 3" holes? I have seen much opinion expressed here but no one has produced an interpretation of the source material to contradict Marsden or Wilkins. Now, as for torsion springs on a hand spanned machine, what in god's name would be the purpose of that Confusedhock: Why in the name of Jupiter would somebody put spring frames on such a low power device when bow technology was far simpler and easily capable of providing the draw weight provided?

Are you seriously suggesting torsion machines we're hand spanned :? ?

Now you say it's deadly accurate and can be fired from behind a shield etc. What purpose would this have actually served on the battle field with no more penetrating power than a bow or similar cross bow?

Look, I would love to continue this debate but unless you can present a clear scientific argument using alternative verifiable arguments and test machines from the original sources I see little point. I have invited Alan to participate in a serious scientific argument should one be presented.
Dane Donato
Legio III Cyrenaica
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Messages In This Thread
Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-06-2009, 04:16 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Jvrjenivs - 04-06-2009, 05:20 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Doc - 04-06-2009, 07:25 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Robert Vermaat - 04-06-2009, 08:00 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-06-2009, 09:20 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballistra... - by D B Campbell - 04-07-2009, 02:51 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Crispvs - 04-07-2009, 03:02 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by fasta - 04-07-2009, 03:07 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by PhilusEstilius - 04-07-2009, 03:40 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballistra... - by Nerva - 04-07-2009, 09:23 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Salvianus - 04-07-2009, 11:12 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by M. Demetrius - 04-07-2009, 11:36 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-08-2009, 08:16 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by fasta - 04-08-2009, 10:43 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by PhilusEstilius - 04-08-2009, 11:02 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by M. Demetrius - 04-08-2009, 01:14 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballistra... - by D B Campbell - 04-09-2009, 03:56 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-09-2009, 11:08 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-09-2009, 11:19 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by marvises - 04-10-2009, 03:29 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by JVL - 04-11-2009, 10:52 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Cheyenne - 04-11-2009, 11:35 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by fasta - 04-11-2009, 12:44 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Salvianus - 04-11-2009, 09:33 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by marvises - 04-11-2009, 09:41 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Salvianus - 04-11-2009, 10:55 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Salvianus - 04-11-2009, 10:58 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-12-2009, 02:10 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by John Conyard - 04-13-2009, 06:20 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-14-2009, 10:39 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by M. Demetrius - 04-15-2009, 02:01 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Salvianus - 04-15-2009, 04:05 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-15-2009, 04:34 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by derek forrest - 04-21-2009, 06:49 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-21-2009, 09:41 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-22-2009, 07:34 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Crispvs - 04-22-2009, 02:06 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-23-2009, 09:52 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by derek forrest - 04-23-2009, 04:54 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-23-2009, 11:37 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by derek forrest - 04-24-2009, 10:33 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-24-2009, 12:35 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by fasta - 04-24-2009, 01:19 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-24-2009, 02:02 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-24-2009, 02:22 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by fasta - 04-24-2009, 04:12 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by M. Demetrius - 04-24-2009, 06:11 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by John Conyard - 04-24-2009, 07:14 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-24-2009, 08:33 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-25-2009, 01:59 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-25-2009, 09:29 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-25-2009, 10:37 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-26-2009, 10:32 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-26-2009, 09:43 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-26-2009, 10:10 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-27-2009, 12:39 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Magnus - 04-27-2009, 05:23 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by jkaler48 - 04-27-2009, 04:28 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-27-2009, 05:33 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Magnus - 04-27-2009, 06:05 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-27-2009, 06:24 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-27-2009, 09:24 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Magnus - 04-28-2009, 04:31 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-28-2009, 09:29 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-28-2009, 09:43 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-28-2009, 10:50 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by D B Campbell - 04-28-2009, 12:04 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-28-2009, 01:48 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by derek forrest - 04-28-2009, 08:58 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-28-2009, 09:23 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Crispvs - 04-29-2009, 05:48 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-29-2009, 08:23 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-29-2009, 09:27 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-29-2009, 10:42 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-29-2009, 11:19 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by D B Campbell - 04-30-2009, 11:32 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-30-2009, 02:06 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by M. Demetrius - 04-30-2009, 03:20 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-30-2009, 03:59 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Crispvs - 04-30-2009, 05:55 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 04-30-2009, 08:15 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 04-30-2009, 09:29 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by derek forrest - 05-02-2009, 07:37 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 05-02-2009, 10:21 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by derek forrest - 05-02-2009, 11:07 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by AuxArcher - 05-03-2009, 12:18 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by M. Demetrius - 05-03-2009, 01:56 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 05-04-2009, 09:09 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Nerva - 05-06-2009, 01:54 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Eleatic Guest - 07-06-2009, 01:20 AM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by Warhammer1 - 11-27-2009, 11:11 PM
Re: Our new cheiroballista... - by richard - 11-28-2009, 01:39 AM

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