I need info on Medieval Irish Warriors/coat of arms

[Celtic505]

I was wondering if irish warriors in the middle ages took the title and culture of the european knight. By Irish I mean native irish and not anglo/norman Irish. Did the irish wear the chain mail, and coat of arms decorated tunic and shield, as you would find in most european armies or did they dress more like their celtic ancestors? I'm sorry if I sound ignorant on the topic but the truth is I am completely ignorant to Medieval culture and warfare, and can't seem to find any information about Irish armies in the middle ages, I can only find information on the Irish in the dark ages and the renaissance age. I wonder because I have been doing research into my families coat of arms on my mother and fathers side, and my mothers side being anglo irish had plenty of information about the Burke family history and coat of arms, but I could not find anything particular about the Flynns. Would members or leaders of the Flynn family clan in medieval Ireland go about with the coat of arms as their shield and clothing, as I have seen the burkes depicted? Or would the native gaelige Irish dress completely different? Any information on middle age gaelige irish warfare, culture, armies and dress would be greatly appreciated. The only image I have in my head is of Stephen in Braveheart and I tend to think thats quite innaccurate, as they totally fouled up the Scots dress.

[Matthew Amt]

Ave!

Probably a good place to ask this is the Armour Archive,

http://www.armourarchive.org

The discussion forum there has an "I Want To Be" section which might have a thread in your desired time and place. Here's one probably a tad early:

http://forums.armourarchive.org/phpBB2/ ... hp?t=48035

Oh, yes, the fellow named Saverio--if he doesn't have the answers for you, no one does! (Not sure if he's on RAT or not.)

Offhand, I would guess that coats of arms were not worn on ordinary clothing by native Irish. By the time that heraldry of that sort develops, the aristocracy was pretty much Anglo-Norman, as I understand it, so anyone Irish was non-noble and would not have had a coat of arms. Even in England and the rest of Europe, wearing heraldry was pretty much limited to military use, I believe, not part of every-day civilian clothing. I'm not sure I'd trust modern coats of arms as evidence of medieval nobility in one's family--just not sure how such things might have evolved. And by all means forget everything you've seen in a movie!

Irish arms and armor do not seem to have been state of the art in comparison to the rest of Europe, and the overall percentage of armor was apparently lower, too. So a well-equipped warrior could probably have a shirt of mail, while helmet, shield, and weapons may be a couple generations out of date. But I'm not sure how much solid information there is.

Like I said, get thee to the Armour Archive and track down Saverio. He'll know!

Good luck and Vale,

Matthew

[Celtic505]

Thanks for the reply! Yeah, I figured you would see Anglo-Normans wearing their crests on surcoats in battle, but I wondered if you would see gaelige families doing the same. I'd always wanted to do a medieval impression of a Knight but with my surnames coat of arms for the surcoat and shield. Basically I wondered if it would be improbable that an ancestor of that name and gaelige ancestry would ever have worn such a thing or if it was pretty much restricted to Anglo-Normans. That seems to be interesting in your answer about how native Irish coat of arms were probably created much later and not for miltary use, that seems the most probable to me, and I've often thought that may be the case, but asked anyways because I was hoping it wouldn't be. But you never know, so I'll check the other forum out and get as much information as I can. Thanks again

[Hibernicus]

I was wondering if irish warriors in the middle ages took the title and culture of the european knight. By Irish I mean native irish and not anglo/norman Irish.

The very few landed nobility. UiNeil is a good example.

Ireland has Chief Herald
http://www.nli.ie/en/intro/heraldry-introduction.aspx

resource:
The Surnames of Ireland
by Edward MacLysaght