Persian archer equipment

[Alanus]

I don't think Grozer makes an Old Persian, but visit his site and you can request it. My experience with his bows are the Extra #1s, which duplicate the look of original oldies. They are not fiberglass bows, but a composite, glass and wood. I have a leather-wrapped fiberglass bow by another maker, and it is a slow dog compared to Grozer's. Csaba is making his bows better and faster, and the new models have less hand-shock.

You don't have to spend 1500 pounds for one of his Extra #3s. They are made with sturgeon glue, actually the best. The components are original-- horn, wood center, and sinew; all covered with leather, snakeskin, or birch-bark. They sell for 750 euros and take about 10 to 12 months to produce, with all that drying. This sounds like a advertisement for his products, but nobody makes a fast durable bow that can compare to his. Steppe bows were used in Britain at one time or another, and I don't think the weather was any better a thousand years ago. :wink:

[Virilis]

Hi guys!

In fact Grozer is making new series of affordable "biocomposite" bows now...

[Alanus]

Hi guys!

In fact Grozer is making new series of affordable "biocomposite" bows now...

I just checked them out. Great idea, and perfect for Britain's weather: aka natural sinew, wood, and horn, combined with modern synthetic glues. If you can get Grozer to make one of his Indo-Persian models with this method, it will stand up to any amount of moisture.

[Dan D'Silva]

Daryush,

Thank you. I'm planning right now to have a simplified Median-style gorytos. Those are some excellent points for the design though.

On another note, does anyone else think the Persian C bow looks more than a little like an Assyrian one?

[daryush]

Dan: It's entirely possible that they were similar or the same (just guessing, haven't read any ancient texts about this) as Persia and Assyria are quite close together.

I've got enough materials to build you a gorytos if you like (I ordered them for a quiver but this is more exciting). I've taken measurements and it would fit the Grozer Scythian base well. It would be a western style, with just a big pocket for arrows instead of flutings (the leather is not flexible enough to make into flutings easily), the entire thing would be dark blue and lined with brown lambskin, but I can put embroidered linen over it. Should hold > 25 arrows, although this will depend on the size of arrow and fletching you use. I've got a mix of different arrows and managed to fit 31 into the folded up sheepskin. Let me know if you're interested.

Alanus: I'm not a huge fan of the biocomposites. I'm not sure if he'd be able to get the ridged kasan because of using pressed sinew plate instead of fibres. His biocomposite Turkish and Crimean-Tatar models don't show a ridged kasan, but they do show a thickening of the sal in the location the kasan would normally be.

I'm sure you could request him to make an Extra 3 with modern glues?

In any case, from what I've read it's the sinew that's partly the problem as well. Fish bladder glue is waterproof (hide glue not so much) but the entire bow still needs covering and probably a heavy coat of varnish for our British weather.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

That was a point I was a little worried about in ordering a bow of traditional construction(sorrry to butt in here) but I believe Grozer uses the fish bladder glue, as well as sinue from a type of elk that is quite rare these days?
So would these be suitable for the British climate, or require some protective coating? Is varnish flexible enouhg for a bow?

[Alanus]

That was a point I was a little worried about in ordering a bow of traditional construction(sorrry to butt in here) but I believe Grozer uses the fish bladder glue, as well as sinue from a type of elk that is quite rare these days?
So would these be suitable for the British climate, or require some protective coating? Is varnish flexible enouhg for a bow?

Grozer uses sturgeon bladder glue, according to his descriptions. I hope he does because I have a Bashkir coming from him and I live in Maine, which is foggy and damp like Britain.
As for varnish? Definately, if you use quality spar or coach varnish. I was the head flyrod finisher for the H.L. Leonard Rod Co., and we used old-fashioned spar varnish. Any of the newer varnishes should work, and some of them have UV protection. The flexibility of bows and fishing rods are about equal.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Thanks, that is reassureing information...assuming I can find it lol

[daryush]

Novotny uses pine / amber varnish. Also Truoil and Bahleen violin varnish. Chris from Spitfire (from what I've heard a very good bowyer) uses a partially liquid epoxy (it's partially liquid so it never sets and hence doesn't crack).

[Dan D'Silva]

Got the bow yesterday! Of course I can't honestly review it 'till I get to do some shooting, but it looks great and is easy to draw.

Daryush, again thank you, but I think it would be preferable (for my reenactment) to stick to a style of gorytos specifically associated with the Achaemenians.

[jonwr]

Dan
Check out this image. http://www.baghdadmuseum.org/posters/i2 ... _Susa.html
Sorry I got it posted so late. Was one I knew of but totally spaced off.
Jon R.

[Alanus]

Wow! How Scythian looking. They say the Assyrians were the first to use the Sousa-phone as a "call" to arms. :lol:

But seriously, the picture appears to show an older form of gorytos. At the moment, I'm drooling. Have a Extra III Hungarian coming from Grozer. Can't wait to draw the real thing-- sinew, wood, and buffalo horn, held together with sturgeon bladder glue.

[ouragos]

One thing you may be looking for are bronze trilobal arrowheads. I have been working with Neil at [/url]http://www.bronze-age-swords.com/[/url] to produce some for the Hoplite Assocation and he has just produced two trial ones (which I have received today) - one copied from a punic war original of mine and another a copy of the stemless 'pyramid'. He is exploring the 5 main shapes (scythian styles) and should have some in stock in the next few weeks as they are perfected and time permits.

All his are 12% tin bronze, so pretty close to the original, and we are to do some serious testing against armour later this year with them.

If you watch his site they should appear on the items for sale at some point later this year.

[Dan D'Silva]

Dan
Check out this image. http://www.baghdadmuseum.org/posters/i2 ... _Susa.html
Sorry I got it posted so late. Was one I knew of but totally spaced off.
Jon R.

Yep. Very similar indeed... I wish I'd noticed it sooner, but on the other hand there's the question of whether the C-bow is meant to be worn with court dress -- I wonder whether any evidence could tell us which was more common in battle.

One thing you may be looking for are bronze trilobal arrowheads. I have been working with Neil at [/url]http://www.bronze-age-swords.com/[/url] to produce some for the Hoplite Assocation and he has just produced two trial ones (which I have received today) - one copied from a punic war original of mine and another a copy of the stemless 'pyramid'. He is exploring the 5 main shapes (scythian styles) and should have some in stock in the next few weeks as they are perfected and time permits.

All his are 12% tin bronze, so pretty close to the original, and we are to do some serious testing against armour later this year with them.

If you watch his site they should appear on the items for sale at some point later this year.

I'll definitely check it out, but may not be able to afford more than a couple.

[jonwr]

Dan
Where did you hear about the"C" bow as court dress? I would be interested in hearing/reading more.
Heres an interesting pic showing what I would think is a thumb draw. The bow is of no real help though.
http://www.baghdadmuseum.org/posters/i4 ... _Iraq.html
Jon R.