Persian archer equipment

[fwg]

Just found one more thingie for you:
http://www.szkitabolt.hu/webshop/catalo ... cts_id=453

Any comments about these bows - useable for 'Roman' reenactment?

I haven´t seen (or tried) them live yet - and the pictures are too bad to tell anything.

[Dan D'Silva]

I've contacted Eastern Archery and the only Old Scythian they have in stock at the moment is in too high of a draw weight for me. The representative was reluctant to say when they might be in stock.

Does anyone think the Children Scythian would be acceptable?

[jonwr]

Try this guy
http://www.grozerarchery.com/index_b.htm
I have a Scyth,Indo-Persian and one of his Trad recurves(really the early Avar model without the leather and horn inlays.
In fact he has tons of goodies.
When you say would the child's Scythian be acceptable do you mean instead of the I-P bow?
Jon R

[Dan D'Silva]

As a substitute for the Old Scythian. Since my impression is pretty early (c. 500 BCE), if the Indo-Persian is significantly more recent then I would have to avoid it.

The other problem is, I don't know what the fees and paperwork are to get something that big shipped from Europe to the US. That's why I'd prefer, if possible, to buy from a US importer or someone who is experienced shipping overseas.

[jonwr]

I had no problems with customs or duty when I ordered from Grozer. The exchange rate is so good now. Best to email him and ask as I got my last bow from there about 3 years ago. I would seriously doubt if very many folks could tell the different. The Scythian has a set back riser and the I-p doesn't.The tips are a little different as well. But if you look at the Scythian bows that have been reconstructed they look nothing like the "modern" ones.
Heres a drawing of a Scythian bow.
http://198.170.107.188/photo/showimg.ph ... h_test.JPG
As you can see the tips have a pronounced curl and the bow is asymmetrical.
Perhaps this one would suit
http://www.eastern-archery.com/grozerframe.html
Or this
http://www.grozerarchery.com/index_b.htm
Go to his web site and click on stock.
Try to avoid bows with string bridges. The prevailing thought is that they did not appear until the 13th Century.
Jon R.

[fwg]

Heres a drawing of a Scythian bow.
http://198.170.107.188/photo/showimg.ph ... h_test.JPG
As you can see the tips have a pronounced curl and the bow is asymmetrical.

IMHO the original shape of this bow was not asymmetrical. I have seen pictures and detailled drawings of original Scythian bow finds - judging from them they were symmetrical. But anyway, they have very pronounced bent tips.

You might want to look at this:
[url:25dvmjmc]http://www.roemischer-vicus.de/fotos_bogenschiessen/f_bog_monrepos_PICT1859m.htm[/url]
This is how a drawn 'genuine' replica of a Scythian bow looks like.

Perhaps this one would suit
http://www.eastern-archery.com/grozerframe.html
Or this
http://www.grozerarchery.com/index_b.htm
Go to his web site and click on stock.
Try to avoid bows with string bridges. The prevailing thought is that they did not appear until the 13th Century.

Correct.
For a Scythian archer´s impression, Grozer´s 'Old Scythian' is more apropriate, since it lacks the siyahs. I´m not so sure about the Persian´s though.

[fwg]

I found a quite good drawing of a Scythian siyah:
[url:1e7ic5tr]http://198.170.107.188/photo/showimg.php?file=/new_atarnet_images01/scythian_siyah_214.jpg[/url]
These seem to be quite unique compared to the other asian horse peoples´ bows.

[jonwr]

fwg
That was one of the siyah pics I was looking for.
Did not someone over on ATARN make a Scythian bow replica?
Seem to remember he used the drawings and artifacts as a patten.
Was that one not asymmetrical?
Jon R

[fwg]

That was one of the siyah pics I was looking for.
Did not someone over on ATARN make a Scythian bow replica?
Seem to remember he used the drawings and artifacts as a patten.
Was that one not asymmetrical?

I´m just browsing thru the pics there right now. 8)

[Dan D'Silva]

I found a quite good drawing of a Scythian siyah:
[url:2ijhwlm1]http://198.170.107.188/photo/showimg.php?file=/new_atarnet_images01/scythian_siyah_214.jpg[/url]
These seem to be quite unique compared to the other asian horse peoples´ bows.

Well, dang. The Children Scythian would be right out (its tips seem to barely curve at all), and I don't think I've seen any even close to that curved on the replica market.

Gonna try to order direct from Grozer, then, the OS looks to be the closest in general appearance.

[jonwr]

fwg
Found this in answer to another ? of mine last year.

Posted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: symmetrical/asymmetrical

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The oldest asymmetrical bows I´ve seen were the bow-findings I´ve checked past February in Siberia. Scythian bow- design is asymmetrical, 30% of the Siberian bow- findings I´ve seen were asymmetrical.
I guess the asymmetrical design was much more common 2000- 3000 years before.
Michael.

Well I'm not getting into that argument any farther 8)
If you need a link to the whole thread its on the usual site. :wink:

Dan
I don't think you are going to find anything like the Scyth bow shown. There are bowyers out there that will make one and a very good one. But the cost would be pretty heavy. .Well I guess thats relative to other kit.
You could check these out.I had a Saluki Scythian for awhile but had to turn it into cash. But I did like it.
http://www.salukibow.com/15.html
Look under horn bows on his page as well.
http://www.salukibow.com/28.html
But I think they will run you about $2500.
Guess its how far down the authenticity road you want to go. Let me know how you make out.
Jon R.

[ouragos]

If you want a bow case that reflects the immortal style, then there are still a few around from the Alexander film and they were pretty focussed upon getting the right shapes for kit. The downside is that some of the materials on these are more "curtain" than authentic (if you get my meaning) but they are pretty good for construct and shape. I have some of the key ones from the film (so I could re-make the patterns!!). The 'immortal' one is made of leather.

See [url:cknspv8g]http://www.rareprops.co.uk[/url] as they show a selection from the film under the Alexander link.

If you are going for a scythian style (lots of skythians fought for the persians), then the little 'hun'/'mongol' variants that are around (e.g. eastern armoury or samarkandia) are not the right designs I'm afraid.

[Alanus]

An odd thing about asymmetrical bows is how they show up everywhere. Several in good condition have been found in the salt-rimmed edge of the Takla Makan, and these are old. I have a 19th century image of Romano-British villa floor, and the archer is toting an asymmetrical. I have one made by Csaba Grozer and it's my favorite. A little less hand shock. He will, for a PRICE, make any style of bow, including Persian no-doubt.

Good luck,

[Dan D'Silva]

Jon,

I like the look of the Saluki horn bows, but from what you're saying they're rather out of my league.

I went ahead and ordered a Grozer Old Scythian. Will get a quote for a custom gorytos as soon as the bow arrives; if it's too much, I'll look into one of the ones Daryush linked to.

[daryush]

Alanus: any idea how much Csaba would charge for something totally custom? I'm basically looking for a cheaper fibreglass version of Novotny's Persian bow (>£1500 for something that may well disintegrate in our British weather is something I'm not prepared to pay until I find out that it won't disintegrate)

Dan: I'm just starting to have a go at leatherwork. If you like I can try build the gorytos I designed a few months ago and send it over (I didn't order it custom then because it would cost a few hundred pounds and I'd rather spend that money on a more powerful bow, and there's a chance it wouldn't fit newer bows perfectly). It's designed for the Grozer Scythian base and should hold between 12 and 18 arrows (5/16 diameter), but that's because it's using flutings as in the Eastern Saka style.