Mannheim jockey cap helmet

[Marcus Mummius]

Salvete,

I read in several places that the Mannheim jockey cap helmets did not have cheekguards but a chinstrap. Does anyone have info or opinions about this subject? Do we have proof for this assumption?

Would this have been a simple leather strap or something more fancy (I saw a drawing of a caesarian soldier in Ancient warfare, was the chinstrap of this soldier's helmet based on a depiction)?

This is an example of a Mannheim jockey cap helmet:



Thanks in advance,
Valete,
Falco

[Folkert van Wijk]

Hi Jef,

They have found a lot of these helmets without cheekguards in Celtic context.
Also are there some depictions of celts wearing Montefortino's and Mannheim or Coolus helmets without cheekguards , showing nothing that looks like a fancy chinstrap.
So telling us, it would have been nothing more than a simple strap that followed the chin line...

In my book of the Morel collection that containes one such a helmet, the autor makes a connection between such a helmet and brons nailes or hooks from the same collection, that could have been used to attache the strap to the helmet somehow...

[jho]

We know for a fact that some jockey cap helmets did not have cheek pieces because they had hinged attachments for chin straps instead of cheek pieces. These are basically pieces of bronze or copper rod formed into something similar to the number 8 with the upper part squared and fitted into the hinge and the lower half presumably taking the leather chin strap (I hope this makes sense, you may be able to find pictures on the internet). I could email you a picture upon request.

If you read German, the publications to consult are Götz Waurick, Helme in Caesars Heer, and the massive "Antike Helme", both published by the Röm-German. Museum Mainz.

Based on these few finds it is my opinion impossible to draw conclusions whether or not the majority of these helmets had cheek pieces. In particular the number of rivets/ rivet holes (one or two) does not seem to be conclusive evidence of whether a cheek piece was fitted and after all, we cannot even be certain that all finds are actually Roman helmets.

Schaaf has claimed (also in Antike Helme) that the majority of Roman Montefortino helmets also lacked cheek pieces but this is based merely on the fact that actual finds seldom had their cheek pieces in place. To me this appears inconclusive in view of pictorial evidence which regularly shows them fitted with cheek pieces.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

You can read something about that here:

http://gladius.revistas.csic.es/index.p ... view/25/26

In the book of Junkelman "Die Legionen des Augustus" there is a nice picture of a reconstruction with a kind of hook that serves to pass a leather strap, not a leather cord.

[Marcus Iulius Chattus]

In the german book "Römische Helme" von Axel Guttmann/Marcus Junkelmann is one Typ Mannheim (from the Rhine at Mainz) descibed, wich used rings instead of cheekpieces!
Most of these helmets come from central france, but some were even found in italy, and Waurick believe that this kind of helmet were used during ceasars gallic-wars, in wich he established many new legions and need tons of new and fast available equipment. That´s one of the reasons why the Mannheim-Helmet didn´t have Cheekpieces, a crude cap whitout the time-needed hinges and cheekpieces is faster to produce!
The earliest Mannheim-Helmet was found, together with a Montefortino-Helmet, in a shipwreck near Madrague de Gens in France and is dated to 70 BC.

[jho]

One example of a helmet with chin strap is actually in the helmet database:


[url:1x7c78hk]http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/option,com_helmets/task,view/cid,72/Itemid,96/[/url]

[Matthew Amt]

Oh, that's neat! But I can guarantee that it was NOT made without cheekpieces simply for the sake of cheapness and speed of production--look at the roping on the rim! In the time it takes to do that kind of work (looks pretty high-quality, too), you could make 5 or 6 pairs of cheekpieces. So I'd have to say that many helmets were made with cheekpieces, while some were not. Might be cultural differences, might just be different. Interesting!

Matthew

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks guys for the VERY useful responses!

I think I'll get me one of those . It won't be easy to choose between the different attachment methods for the chin strap.

Valete,

[Folkert van Wijk]

Do you have any idea allready about where you would like to buy them?

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Yes. Here:

http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/ ... -helme.htm

[Marcus Mummius]

Yes. Here:

http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/ ... -helme.htm

Yes, that's the place to get one. I've been considering getting a helmet from them for a long time.

[Folkert van Wijk]

Yes. Here:

http://www.rudis-kuenstlerwerkstatt.de/ ... -helme.htm

Yes, that's the place to get one. I've been considering getting a helmet from them for a long time.

Yeap that's what I would say to.. :wink:

[Marcus Iulius Chattus]

@ Matthew Amt
Thats a really rare specimen with this extraordinary Kordellband around the rim, because nearly all other Mannheim-Helmets are totally crude made. Mostly they have no Kordellband or a simple one, and those rings are even extraordinary, more often there are nothing more than holes above the rim.

[Matthew Amt]

@ Matthew Amt
Thats a really rare specimen with this extraordinary Kordellband around the rim, because nearly all other Mannheim-Helmets are totally crude made. Mostly they have no Kordellband or a simple one, and those rings are even extraordinary, more often there are nothing more than holes above the rim.

Understood, I really just meant that particular helmet. I am a little leery about assuming that helmets that are not well-finished were "hastily made", as in having a particularly tight deadline. It could just imply that the buyer wasn't willing to shell out for better work, whether he was buying one helmet or a thousand. I agree that consistent crappy work is likely an indication of mass-production rather than custom work for richer customers. I just think we should be careful about reading too much into the evidence. Very minor quibble, overall!

Vale,

Matthew

[Marcus Iulius Chattus]

The fashion to wear helmets whitout cheekpieces, even in the late republic, goes back to the bronze-age and the Negau-Type helmet, which was nearly always weared whitout them (with the exception of some specimens with a nearly enclosed face-part).
But, i agree with you and believe that not always a crude helmet comes from a mass-produced stock for a fast established legion! Maybe there are from a young black-smith whitout much experience or from one who haven´t much time or passion for this kind of work!