The colour red

[PhilusEstilius]

I know just what you mean John however I think from the point of veiw of colour I might even believe them.

[fasta]

Well in the terms of re-enactment in the city the VIIII use Green and the VI use red.I'm not a member of either so its for them to say how they came this conclusion,workmen in cellars or any one of the other stories. :roll:

Tunic wars :!:

[Gorgon]

The lorica segmentata appears in the late first century BC, but does not replace mail! Mail continues in use by many legionaries right alongside segmentata, and seems to be the more common armor among auxiliaries.

Hum, there are remains of lorica segmentata from Britain at the time of the invasions (40s AD); Bishop refers to that, at least in the second edition of Roman Military Equipment. And if I remember correctly some pieces of lorica segmentata have been found and dated from around 10 AD (also in Bishop's book). This leads to believe that segmentata was already in substantial use by the middle of the 1st century, although maybe not as widespread as it would become later in the same century.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

You have them from 9AD in Germany, Kalkriese.

[Matthew Amt]

The earliest datable segmentata bits are from about 9 BC, Dangstetten if I am remembering correctly. So it was clearly coming into use about that time, though the scarcity of early finds implies that it was not yet as common as it would become. By mid-first century AD, bits and pieces are all over the Empire.

Sure would be neat to know what the first ones looked like!

Matthew

[caiusbeerquitius]

Matt, do you know in which lot in Dangstetten the segmentata finds were?
I just have the publications here and could post the pic.

[Matthew Amt]

Hoo, not a clue, sorry! Not even sure what sorts of bits were found. Obviously Mike Bishop could clear this up, and I'm sure SOMEone else out there should know this! (Yes, *I* should too...)

Matthew

[Gorgon]

Sure would be neat to know what the first ones looked like!

Matthew

According to Bishop the Augustan types are similar to the ones of the British invasions (that is, the lobate fittings of the Corbridge type were not part of the original design).

By the way, I tried to find the reference to the first segmentata findings in Bishop beying from around 10AD but without luck. Maybe I'm confusing something. But he clearly puts the earliest pieces during the Augustan period and lists/illustrates quite a few findings, albeit without dates (only the sites names).

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

The earliest datable segmentata bits are from about 9 BC, Dangstetten if I am remembering correctly. So it was clearly coming into use about that time, though the scarcity of early finds implies that it was not yet as common as it would become. By mid-first century AD, bits and pieces are all over the Empire.

Sure would be neat to know what the first ones looked like!

Matthew

So are these different than the Kalkriese finds?

[Matthew Amt]

So are these different than the Kalkriese finds?

Different find-spot, but my guess is that it would be a Kalkriese-style lorica, more or less. But we just don't have enough substantial definite Kalkriese pieces to know just what the originals looked like, at least to any detail.

Matthew