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Hello All,
I was wondering if someone could give me a answer? I know that during winter battles the legions were supplied with cloaks and leggings, but during the non winter battles were they supplied with capes. I would think this might get in the way when close hand to hand fighting was taking place---any thoughts? Thanks.
Dante
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Hi Dante,
The Romans did not wear their cloaks into battle, in winter or in summer.
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Magnus/Matt
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Quote:The Romans did not wear their cloaks into battle, in winter or in summer.
Not strictly true. There is evidence soldiers and officers used their cloaks in battle either for signalling or in combat situations wrapped around the left arm. The bodies of the soldiers in the mine at Dura Europos were found with cloak brooches suggesting they were wearing cloaks at the time. Several scenes on Trajan's column show soldiers wearing cloaks or using them to store stones or sling shot in folds.
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
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As I understand it, a cloak of some sort was simply a common part of male dress. Kind of like how modern businessmen don't wear a coat or jacket for warmth, it is just proper attire.
In any case, assuming the cloak also served as bedding on campaign, it would be taken on the march even if the weather was too warm to wear it during the day.
Valete,
Matthew
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Quote:Quote:The Romans did not wear their cloaks into battle, in winter or in summer.
Not strictly true. There is evidence soldiers and officers used their cloaks in battle either for signalling or in combat situations wrapped around the left arm. The bodies of the soldiers in the mine at Dura Europos were found with cloak brooches suggesting they were wearing cloaks at the time. Several scenes on Trajan's column show soldiers wearing cloaks or using them to store stones or sling shot in folds.
Graham.
Ok, but it wasn't worn as a garment per se. I'd also be leary of using the column on this one. What is the evidence of them wearing the cloak on their left arm...what is the purpose of this?
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Magnus/Matt
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Quote:What is the evidence of them wearing the cloak on their left arm...what is the purpose of this?
I don't know if Graham drives at this, but I remember vaguely that this refers to troops being attacked more or less by surprise (on the march/in camp?), i.e. not having time to grab their shields and hence protecting their left arm instead with some layers of cloak.
But I'm writing from memory and could mix things up! :?
[size=85:2j3qgc52]- Carsten -[/size]
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I feel that it would be very unlikely for Romans to wear the cloaks inot battle, it would be to dangerous as it would no doubt get in there way and be a burden.
i like the idea of the cloak around the left arm but is this really practical?
How heavy where these cloaks?
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It depends on what sort of cloak,they weren't all the same.The fashion in the later period of leaving the right arm free makes it possible to fight with one on and still hold a scutum. In fact its added protection if you think about it.In warm weather I'll admit it makes things harder but if you are caught off guard you just have to get on with it.
Fasta Ambrosius Longus
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Quote:i like the idea of the cloak around the left arm but is this really practical?
As Fasta says, it was likely just an emergency solution.
However, putting many layers of fabric around his arm for protection was known and practised by gladiators.
see here for an interpretation: http://www.naval-military-press.com/images/T/18587.jpg
Quote:How heavy where these cloaks?
Hard to generalise. There were lighter and heavier garments, bigger and smaller pieces.
One papyrus found in Egypt tells us about cloaks (sagum) being about 9x6 feet and 1,6 kg in weight.
[size=85:2j3qgc52]- Carsten -[/size]
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Quote:I don't know if Graham drives at this, but I remember vaguely that this refers to troops being attacked more or less by surprise (on the march/in camp?), i.e. not having time to grab their shields and hence protecting their left arm instead with some layers of cloak.
But I'm writing from memory and could mix things up!
Your memory is spot on that was the incident I meant. This and other uses in battle for cloaks such as using them as makeshift sails and on battlements to absorb arrows are included in my latest book 'Roman Military Dress'.
Quote:I feel that it would be very unlikely for Romans to wear the cloaks inot battle, it would be to dangerous as it would no doubt get in there way and be a burden.
I doubt whether a cloak would be a burden to an experienced soldier! A cloak even if blowing in the wind could absorb or deflect missiles. Wrapped around the arm a cloak could act as a makeshift shield.
Quote:As I understand it, a cloak of some sort was simply a common part of male dress. Kind of like how modern businessmen don't wear a coat or jacket for warmth, it is just proper attire.
Yes, cloaks were even worn indoors.
Graham.
"Is all that we see or seem but a dream within a dream" Edgar Allan Poe.
"Every brush-stroke is torn from my body" The Rebel, Tony Hancock.
"..I sweated in that damn dirty armor....TWENTY YEARS!', Charlton Heston, The Warlord.
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Quote:Your memory is spot on that was the incident I meant. This and other uses in battle for cloaks such as using them as makeshift sails and on battlements to absorb arrows are included in my latest book 'Roman Military Dress'.
Has that book came out already? At amazon it seems like it is out of print but I have the impression it was never published to begin with?
Pedro Pereira
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Quote:Graham Sumner:z343lzzg Wrote:Your memory is spot on that was the incident I meant. This and other uses in battle for cloaks such as using them as makeshift sails and on battlements to absorb arrows are included in my latest book 'Roman Military Dress'.
Has that book came out already? At amazon it seems like it is out of print but I have the impression it was never published to begin with?
Indeed this book isn't published yet. Although Graham probably can tell more, I remember having read somewhere it should be published in July. So, it's forthcomming, but just need a little bit of wait more.
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Thank you, Jurgen. I checked at Amazon US instead of UK and indeed it says 1st of July.
Pedro Pereira
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