The Makedonian phalanx -- why such depth?

[Paullus Scipio]

Paul B. wrote:

Again the account of them forming in “6” is so that they can go to dinner!!! At a buffet depth is less important than on the battlefield. I think you corrupt his meaning in the “Lak. constitution”. Below is the text: Xen. Const. Lac. 11

“The men so equipped were divided into six regiments of cavalry and infantry. The officers of each citizen regiment comprise one colonel, four captains, eight first lieutenants and sixteen second lieutenants. These regiments at the word of command form sections4 sometimes (two), sometimes three, and sometimes six abreast. [5] “

You seem to be conflating two separate accounts of Xenophon here. The reference to practising Drill while marching to Dinner in a large mess-tent is from the quasi 'factional' Cyropaedia (II.21-23)...and I'm quite sure you don't believe for one minute that the purpose of the Drill practise was to proceed to Dinner in an orderly fashion!!! :lol: :lol:
If you do hold such a belief, it should be dispelled a little later. Xenophon is at pains to have Cyrus show leadership by rewarding with a feast those company captains who use every opportunity to drill their men, including going to dinner ( which is still the practise in most militaries today). A captain tells Cyrus he drills both getting to dinner, and in reverse, leaving dinner.

Cyrus says ( II.23 )
" Well then, I will invite you because you give your lines practice both in coming and in going, by night and by day, and also because you give your bodies exercise by marching about, and improve your minds by instruction. Since, therefore, you do all this doubly, it is only fair that I should furnish you a double feast also."
This description of Xenophon's would be familiar to anyone who has served in the Military and been to Boot Camp !! :wink:

The passage you quote is from the 'Lacedaemonian Constitution', where Xenophon is giving a brief description of Spartan Military methods, and how simple and straightforward they are. The "(two)" is in brackets because there is a lacuna in the text, and it is not certain if 'one' or 'two' should be inserted, but one is consistent with what Xenophon says elsewhere.

There is no implication here that they must always double down to 6. In fact it seems to me to read that they can choose to form in 2, 3, or 6 files as need be. You fall into a logical fallacy in that if you are going to double down to 6, your three files need space between them. This is not the case if you have no intention of doubling beyond the file of 12, but instead form these 12 man files in close order. Nothing could be simpler, and you can form in any depth from 50+ to two.

We are here concerned with the 'norm', or what is typical. We are told that Spartan 'platoons' typically of 36 men ( depending on the age-groups called up) could form up in (probably) single file, threes (12 deep) or sixes( 6deep). No other depths are mentioned - no "sometimes 50, sometimes two". What you say is theoretically possible, but not what Xenophon says. Remember that each platoon/enomotia, once drawn up in Phalanx cannot change its front, so all manoevres must be carried out by thinning or deepening the line, just as Xenophon says.
In order that readers can visualise what is happening, I'm including the schematics I sent you some time ago - that way our discussion will be easier to follow.

Note that in 'normal/open ' order, in which they manouevre, (such as Laconian countermarch - essentially what a High school band does to reverse course) the formation is 8x8 in the Cyropaedian drill, and the depth of the 'normal' formation is correctly described as 8 deep. However, my hypothesis is that the final Charge was carried out in 'close' order of half-files - in which formation manouevres such as Laconian counter-march could not be carried out. ( and not just mine - compare similar ideas in Connolly P. and Anderson J.K. ) Once the Phalanx 'closed up', it was committed and could only move forward/back ( except for the famous 'rightward drift')

Xenophon's Spartan drill is more briefly described, but follows the same principles.

How does showing that thin line failed prove that Xenophon’s line were 4 deep- quite thin! Surely you don’t believe that the center at marathon was two deep and the wings were 4???

My point is simply to counter the "special pleading" argument that when Xenophon talks of customary battle formation being 4 deep, he is speaking of an especially thin one used only against Asiatics. Given knowledge that a "thin" centre failed at Marathon, the Ten Thousand will hardly have "thinned" their formation, ergo the "customary Battle formation" is just that ! D