casting orichalcum, then niello, then silvering? How??

[Latinitas]

Hey,

I was wondering some original roman finds. But I dont understand one thing. The original roman obiect was casted in bronze, it was silvered and it has niello. How did they do that? How is it possible that they put a silver layer on a bronze obiect without destroying the niello, or how could they put niello on a bronze disc without destroying the silver layer?

Hope you understood my english :roll:

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

It's a interesting question, that i have made to myself sometimes. It's possible they put the niello in the cavalry equipment and don't grind it over. So, first make the item, then cover it with silver foil or silver it with a mercury amalgam, then put the niello in the decoration.

Probably putting only a limited quantity of niello, heat it (niello have a low point of fusion), and probably grind only a little the surface with a file of a little size.

It's only my suposition, of course...

[PhilusEstilius]

I may stand corrected but I do think that Nielo is infact a substance very similar to any modern epoxy resin, it is a three ingredient paste one of which I know and that is Sulphur therefore it would have been simply mixed and smoothed in as an inlay.
I have often used modern epoxy with paint for inlays that are very much the same as those that I have found in many Roman artifacts which I have.
There are of course enamels used in Roman decoration but for the most part many are simple pastes.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

No exactly. Yes it a compound of 3 sustances (silver, sulfur, copper), but for mix it and for aply, you have to melt it with heat.

[Peroni]

Good info on niello types here..
http://www.anteamurlo.it/niello.htm

[PhilusEstilius]

I did say that I may be corrected, Thanks a lot Adrian that is a wonderfull piece of info' there great!!
I did say of course that I have cheated in the past by using epoxy resins, however these can also be polished down and does the job very well for repros'.

[Marcus Mummius]

Some very interesting information about tinned and silvered cupric alloy objects with niello decoration can be found in:

W. A. Oddy, M. Bimson and S. La Niece. The Composition of Niello Decoration on Gold, Silver and Bronze in the Antique and Mediaeval Periods. Studies in Conservation, Vol. 28, No. 1 (Feb., 1983), pp. 29-35

Amongst the examples that are described by the authors there is a late Roman object that has traces of tin on the niello on the niello decoration. Almost everywhere the tin was cleaned off the niello inlay but in some places some tin remained on top of the niello.

So we can conclude that at least on that object the niello inlay was done first, then the tinning and the tin was then cleaned off the niello decoration.

Tin has a much lower melting temperature than niello so this proces is pretty logical.

Vale,

[Latinitas]

Thanks, i have made my own niello. Havn`t the original book jef, maybe this version is online?

Btw: could they use pure (99/100%) silver too? And niello with lead in the 1st century?

[Marcus Mummius]

Thanks, i have made my own niello. Havn`t the original book jef, maybe this version is online?

Btw: could they use pure (99/100%) silver too? And niello with lead in the 1st century?

Roman niello from the 1st century AD seems to have been lead free.

Vale,