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The Persian Wars - the Other Side of the Story
#1
Two friends of mine came back from their honeymoon with lots of photos from New York museums. Among them was this impression of a Persian cylinder seal, which can stylistically be dated to the first quarter of the fifth century. It represents a Persian king fighting against a Yauna (Greek). As Darius is not known to have fought against them -he had generals like Datis and Artaphernes to do that- it must be Xerxes. The man fallen on the ground must be someone important; perhaps it is Leonidas.

This is, except for Xerxes' claim (in inscriptions) to have conquered the "Yauna from across the Sea" and a probably unreliable reference to a painting of the bridge across the Hellespont in Babylon (mentioned by Philostratus, Life of Apollonius), the only evidence for the Persian side of the story. Besides, isn't this picture -in spite of the unpleasant scene- beautiful?
Jona Lendering
Relevance is the enemy of history
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#2
This seal is not unique....there are others of similar style showing a Persian King killing a 'Greek'......but one cannot tell if they refer to the conquest of the Greek cities of Asia minor and the islands, the putting down of revolts by the Ionian cities or, if it is indeed Xerxes, the 'conquest' of European Greece. The palm-trees are certainly hardly symbolic of 'the Greeks across the sea/Greece.

If the latter is what is depicted, then it is interesting that 'Leonidas' is depicted in the contemporary 'Tube-and-Yoke' coreselet, which is how I believe the Spartans of Thermopylae and Plataea were equipped, rather than the obsolete bronze 'Bell' cuirass that many show ( e.g. Osprey publications) based on votive offerings etc from a century or more before......
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#3
Quote: It represents a Persian king fighting against a Yauna (Greek). As Darius is not known to have fought against them -he had generals like Datis and Artaphernes to do that- it must be Xerxes.

Is there any reason why it has to be a king who personally fought the Greeks? Could it not be symbolic in some way of the king's armies, even when commanded by others, beating the Greeks? Fighting in the name of the great king so he gets to appear on his seal.
Nik Gaukroger

"Never ask a man if he comes from Yorkshire. If he does, he will tell you.
If he does not, why humiliate him?" - Canon Sydney Smith

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#4
Quote:This seal is not unique....there are others of similar style showing a Persian King killing a 'Greek'......but one cannot tell if they refer to the conquest of the Greek cities of Asia minor and the islands, the putting down of revolts by the Ionian cities or, if it is indeed Xerxes, the 'conquest' of European Greece. The palm-trees are certainly hardly symbolic of 'the Greeks across the sea/Greece.

If the latter is what is depicted, then it is interesting that 'Leonidas' is depicted in the contemporary 'Tube-and-Yoke' coreselet, which is how I believe the Spartans of Thermopylae and Plataea were equipped, rather than the obsolete bronze 'Bell' cuirass that many show ( e.g. Osprey publications) based on votive offerings etc from a century or more before......
However, I see that this Persian is wearing a crown and the “Persian dress” of robes. That's a bit unusual. It is a nice picture- the seal-carver managed to get a lot of detail into a small space.
Nullis in verba

I have not checked this forum frequently since 2013, but I hope that these old posts have some value. I now have a blog on books, swords, and the curious things humans do with them.
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#5
As do the other similar seals.....
"dulce et decorum est pro patria mori " - Horace
(It is a sweet and proper thing to die for ones country)

"No son-of-a-bitch ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country" - George C Scott as General George S. Patton
Paul McDonnell-Staff
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#6
Was the raised finger a sign of submission through out the mid east as well as in the greek world? If not it would seem a Greek was carving for the King using greek motiffs. Do you think it is a bit of comedy that the hoplite is sitting in the bowl of his shield?
Paul M. Bardunias
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A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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