Sources for gladius hilt materials

[jvrjenivs]

If you have access to a copy of Miks you will find a number of further wooden parts shown there

can you give me more information about that book? thanks

Christian Miks - Studien zur römischen Schwertbewaffnung in der Kaiserzeit.
ISBN-13: 978-3-89646-136-0
ISBN-10: 3-89646-136-2
See [url:1ggaasc1]http://www.vml.de/e/detail.php?ISBN=978-3-89646-136-0[/url]

[Crispvs]

Try looking in a pet supplies shop. A lot of shops sell them for dogs to chew on. You do have to know what you are looking for though, as the nocks are often cut off on pet shop bones.

Crispvs

[marcos]

Christian Miks - Studien zur römischen Schwertbewaffnung in der Kaiserzeit.
ISBN-13: 978-3-89646-136-0
ISBN-10: 3-89646-136-2
See [url:3qjllx1a]http://www.vml.de/e/detail.php?ISBN=978-3-89646-136-0[/url]

unfortunately only in german !

Crispvs, I have checked pet supplies shops , but is possible to find there only pigs bones (al least here in Italy) or "artificial" bone, both not good.

[jvrjenivs]

Yeah, that's true, but the drawings alone are worth the money! (at least in my opinion)

[Jesper D]

Hey!
Kidnapping the thread with your discussions about bones and butchers, eh? hock:

Very interesting actually, I am not a practical man and I feel a strong urge to hassel my local butcher for a metaarsal
and get to work... Are you guys all professionals in this field or have you taken your personal interests this far?
It is really inspiring to think that you have taken your personal interests this far, I shall strive to do the same! :mrgreen:

May I ask what bones you use for guard and pommel, Crispvs?


Cheers,
Jesper

[jvrjenivs]

Very interesting actually, I am not a practical man and I feel a strong urge to hassel my local butcher for a metaarsal and get to work... Are you guys all professionals in this field or have you taken your personal interests this far?
It is really inspiring to think that you have taken your personal interests this far, I shall strive to do the same! :mrgreen:

Okay, I haven't work with bone (yet), but at least I can answer this for myself in general. It's just fun to make stuff yourself (okay, I know I can be happy with hands that make that possible) and you learn a lot from it. Also, you can be more proud on your kit (I mean, everyone can buy deepeeka-stuff) and it's exactly what you want (so not that particular bag that is availiable, but one you found in an local digging report, for instance). And again, it will give you a more unique look, on which you can be proud.

Ow, and I'm in no way a professional artisian (although I slowly get some questions from friend to make stuff for them), but just an ordinary (bio)chemistry student. So, yes, for me, it's just personal interest that brought me so far (and I hope will bring me even further. Still a lot of techniques and materials to learn and use. Hopefully some day my kit will be completely home-made using period tools and techniques (but that's still a long way to go)

[marcos]

almost the some for me , I'm not a professional restorer so it's just my personal interest that brought me so far. I have studied gladii and pugiones for several years and now I think that all books you can read , although essential, are not enough to a deep and complete acquaintance. Re-hilting gladii I try to understand all their backdoors as well as possible.
Anyhow it is fun .

But now we have a new handle of gladius to talk about. It' s really a bomb !
Some days ago appeared on the web this, from a gladius hispaniensis :



what do you think about the 3 roundels ? What was their employment? Surely the grip not was from bone nor wood , both rigid and without requirement of those roundels. But so? seems like they are a support to a soft handle , made from leather or something else, but that is really hard to image.
As far I can remember I never seen before one like this one.

[jvrjenivs]

But now we have a new handle of gladius to talk about. It' s really a bomb !
Some days ago appeared on the web this, from a gladius hispaniensis :

what do you think about the 3 roundels ? What was their employment? Surely the grip not was from bone nor wood , both rigid and without requirement of those roundels. But so? seems like they are a support to a soft handle , made from leather or something else, but that is really hard to image.
As far I can remember I never seen before one like this one.

Seems to me a bit like those found at handles from late iron age/ La Tene from the lower Rhine delta. Take for those a look at all that's written on them by Edge Gibbon when he submitted his wonderful repro for Hasta Pura award:
[url:2e53g4mm]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewforum.php?f=33[/url]

So, actually there could have been some organic stuff between those discs (even wood or bone)

[marcos]

unfortunately image don't exist anymore , thus I can't understand for sure the metodology of construction. I have an image of a fragment of a celtic sword grip on a catalogue of the British museum , it is short and now I realize could be it was betweeen 2 roundels.
If so it means that also romans used this metodolgy of construction , but I not have notice of a roman handle so made , before this. I'm mistaking?

Can you provide some other images of the swords you mean ?

[jvrjenivs]

Can you provide some other images of the swords you mean ?

You can find a little picture with 2 examples on page 110 of the book by Nico Roymans, which is online at google-books:
[url:2ju9fh31]http://books.google.nl/books?id=qfpKN-oMaWoC&printsec=frontcover#PPA110,M1[/url]

[Jesper D]

Hello,
What is the source of this picture please? Are you sure it is a gladius hispaniensis?
Isn't that a celtic handle design? Dunno about what's left of pommel and guard? It does remind me of roman pommels and guards but what do I know... Has it been dated? What shape, width, length is/has the blade?

Btw, I'm slightly disturbed that nobody seem to know of any metal hilt remains from gladii... A lot of
popular representations of gladii seem to use metal hilts, osprey(I know..but pure speculation??)...

Cheers,
Jesper

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Hello,
What is the source of this picture please? Are you sure it is a gladius hispaniensis?
Isn't that a celtic handle design? Dunno about what's left of pommel and guard? It does remind me of roman pommels and guards but what do I know... Has it been dated? What shape, width, length is/has the blade?

Btw, I'm slightly disturbed that nobody seem to know of any metal hilt remains from gladii... A lot of
popular representations of gladii seem to use metal hilts, osprey(I know..but pure speculation??)...

Cheers,
Jesper

Which metal hilts are these?

The only ones I have seen are the ones posted above, i.e. the silver sheeted mainz.

The ones with the discs in the handle I believe can be attested to Roman Britain, a RAT member has just had an excellent reconstruction done of this typem which I have had the pleasure to handle briefly...

[marcos]

the sword is 59 cm long , surely roman from the late republic to the first empire. Unfortunately until now I have only that image , hoping to have some more in the future.

Thank you for the link ,jvrjenivs, it is not exactly the some of the above gladius handle but certanly very close.

[jvrjenivs]

Indeed it isn't the same, but these 'rings' look similar. And yes, the ones I posted are from 'local' late iron age swords (Late la tene). I just posted them to see the possible similarity in construction of the handle, using these discs.

[marcos]

but ,as long as you can see , have you never seen similar rings in roman swords ? I think this is the first on the scene.