M. Dem\'s Calceus

[Neuraleanus]

here is a drawing of the shoe from Vindolanda you may have been thinking about (the socalled Allendale):

In looking through "Stepping through Time", I was thinking the same thing.

Here is an example for the difference in nailing and sewing vs. nailing only (not that much, but recognizeable)

In making caligae I have seen bigger gaps.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I would agree with the idea that the hobnails should not be the element holding the sole to the uppers. The nails are there for traction and grip, but can fall out or break. This would weaken the rest of the boot unnecessarily in my mind?

[M. Demetrius]

Well, the sewing and nailing sure does look more "finished", no doubt about that. If the nails were all that held the sole on, I can see structural failure more likely if the points were not clinched over. But that's just the worry wart in me.

I'll go make a sample of what I'm thinking, and get back to searching out the picture of that boot. Maybe the cutouts are not in the original. My brain gets foggy enough without making it do real work. I'll put up a picture of the sample bit, with nails and sewing, to show what is in my brain. Might make it clearer than the words I've used.

That shoe you show, Martin, is pretty close to what I remembered, but my brain wants to make the toe piece stretch further back over the foot. Maybe I'm mixing up too many pictures. I don't have a book to look at for different styles, etc.

Hey, GJC, if you have a boot in your brain, that could be the source of your headaches, mate! :lol: :roll: Just kidding. I agree with what you said.

[Neuraleanus]

Demetrii

Here is a hint on making the tunnel stitches. First soak the out-sole in hot water, preferably over night. Then make the tunnels in the out-sole using a curved suture needle. Don't waste your money on curved awls. The curved suture needles are cheaper and tend to bend a bit without breaking. I cut off part of the shank and chuck it into an awl holder. Flexible beading needles are then used to do the actual sewing. Here is a picture of curved needle:

[M. Demetrius]

Great idea, Lee. I have some curved "sailmaker" needles, that might do the job, if not, it's off to the Medical Supply store.

Finally found the shoe my memory regurgitated. I don't know where the picture came from, or who to credit for the work, but this is the one I was working toward. Can anyone tell me if this is the circa 50BC--50AD time span?

Short of those being in my time frame, how about the reddish brown ones that are almost an enclosed boot? What era, O ye experts? I'm an ignorant churlish dolt, but at least I admit it. 8)

[Neuraleanus]

As Martin shows, that is the Allendale from Vindolanda which I believe to be 1st century AD, not BC. It is constructed solid in the back and stitched along the front top. As Martin has also said, there is not much to go on for Ceasar's time.

[M. Demetrius]

Here's what I was talking about with the insole. It may be that the scraps I hooked together don't really tell the picture, but with the labels, maybe it will work. What say you, shumachers?

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd29 ... enoted.jpg
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd29 ... enoted.jpg

[Martin Moser]

Finally found the shoe my memory regurgitated. I don't know where the picture came from, or who to credit for the work, but this is the one I was working toward. Can anyone tell me if this is the circa 50BC--50AD time span?

Even more off I'm afraid - looks like a not so good (especially the rear part!) reconstruction of a typical 3rd cent. AD boot. Cf. here.

Short of those being in my time frame, how about the reddish brown ones that are almost an enclosed boot?

Ahm, not quite sure which ones you mean here ... ?

[Martin Moser]

Here's what I was talking about with the insole. It may be that the scraps I hooked together don't really tell the picture, but with the labels, maybe it will work.

Ah, ok, I think I unserstand now - in that case, why not cut into the sole from the side, 5-8mm deep, and leave the thread in that gap, which can then be glued closed so that the thread doesn't show on the outside? See here for what I mean.

[M. Demetrius]

Ahm, not quite sure which ones you mean here ... ?

These:

[Martin Moser]

Oh, misunderstood you perhaps - those are the ones I was referring to above in my previous posting as being based on 3rd century ones ...

[M. Demetrius]

Sorry for the confusion. This is the one I meant to say was the one stuck in my murky brain. It's the other one in that same post in this thread, "stephenson4".
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd29 ... enson4.jpg

I'd forgotten that usually only one of the attachments displays, and the others do not.

[Martin Moser]

Ah, got you now :-) ) I hadn't seen the attachment under the picture! I have seen the "stephenson4.jpg" before and always thought it to be based on those Allendales from Vindolanda. They would fit in the development of shoe forms at the end of the first cent. AD, too, IMHO, being something like a transitional form from a time where caligae apparently started to get out of fashion, being replaced by boots in a more modern sense. Also the cutting pattern gives a notion of the finer (fishnet like) ones of around 100 AD. Not something I would suggest for the time you are looking at.
What "profession" or social standing are you thinking of for the wearer of the shoes you would like to make, Dave?

[M. Demetrius]

A common soldier nearing the end of his first term of enlistment. Probably in at the last of Caesar's time, now serving under Augustus. An ordinary Miles Gregarius.

Not as bad a memory as I'd thought, though, all things considered. And I had the generic situation right: transitional form. Just missed it by a hundred years. :oops:

[Martin Moser]

A common soldier nearing the end of his first term of enlistment. Probably in at the last of Caesar's time, now serving under Augustus. An ordinary Miles Gregarius.

Caligae would put you on the safe side certainly. I guess calcei like the ones found at Mainz would be ok, too. Otherwise I'd advice to research late republican art like statues, reliefs etc.
Oh, and if you do so, let me know what you found :-) )