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feminalia
#16
Nice work Velite! Any closeups of the belt fastening setup?
Mine is quite baggy and prone to slipping.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#17
As far as I've read, the braccae/feminalia did not have an outseam (the seam that runs down the outside of the leg). I've found a commercial pattern like that which is pretty easy to modify for leg tightness, etc. You can get one here, and it is in multiple sizes:

http://www.fabric.com/notions-patterns- ... -pant.aspx

Easy enough to put in a drawstring instead of elastic, or add belt loops if you'd rather. The ones I have made from this pattern, I left part of the front center seam unsewn, to make a sort of fly opening. Much more convenient in time of need.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#18
Quote:As far as I've read, the braccae/feminalia did not have an outseam (the seam that runs down the outside of the leg). I've found a commercial pattern like that which is pretty easy to modify for leg tightness, etc. You can get one here, and it is in multiple sizes:

http://www.fabric.com/notions-patterns- ... -pant.aspx

This looks like it will do well. From where did you get the info for no side-seams?
Titus Licinius Neuraleanus
aka Lee Holeva
Conscribe te militem in legionibus, vide mundum, inveni terras externas, cognosce miros peregrinos, eviscera eos.
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.legiotricesima.org">http://www.legiotricesima.org
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#19
Looks like a goood idea, Demetrius. I also like your feminalia, Velite. Isee, i get very good impressions and ideas from this discussion Big Grin ? .

does someone have a nice pattern or good step-by-step- instructions to do one feminalia. Maybe i will risk it, that there is no evidence for one caesarian trooper to have one feminalia. I can also use it for later troopers and i can´t imagine that caesarian soldiers just used tunicae in winter in gaul and germania. I´m from germany and i can say, it´s really cold here sometimes, so i want one feminalia for reenacting, why not a caesarian soldier thought the same :lol: ...

Kindly regards,
Lucius Rabirius
Robinson Krämer
a.k.a

Lucius Rabirius
Lykios Polystratou

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.flavii.de">http://www.flavii.de
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.hetairoi.de">http://www.hetairoi.de

"quis porro (...) Asia aut Africa aut Italia relicta Germaniam peteret, informem terris, asperam caelo, tristem cultu aspectuque, nisi si patria sit?" - Tacitus, Germania II
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#20
Quote:From where did you get the info for no side-seams?
The Thorsburg (sp?) trousers, the ones with the feet attached, have no side seams. IIRC, they do have a crotch gusset of some kind, but it's been a while since I saw that drawing. Ancient garments tended to be made from rectangles, as that's the shape that comes from a loom. The didn't do the more complicated, tailored cutting/fitting that we do today, apparently.

Quote:does someone have a nice pattern or good step-by-step- instructions to do one feminalia
If you get the pattern I listed, it comes with instructions. Basically, though, the sequence will go like this.

*Cut out the particular size you need from the pattern. (I usually get white paper and trace the appropriate size, leaving the pattern intact, because someone else might want to use my pattern later)
*Measure the length you need for the legs of the pants.
*Mark the pattern and trim.
*Cut the cloth according to the pattern.
*Sew the inside seam, around the crotch. If you intend to leave a fly opening, don't forget about that. If you are planning to use a drawstring around the waist, put the button holes in where the string comes out before you make the turn-down for the string casing.
*Sew up the inner seam.
*Turn down the casing, and insert the drawstring.

With wool, I generally go back and sew the seams a second time, to capture the raw edges, and make a flatter seam.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#21
Dave, could you use a nice fitting pair of modern pants as a pattern and measurement base?
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#22
Quote:The Thorsburg (sp?) trousers, the ones with the feet attached, have no side seams. IIRC, they do have a crotch gusset of some kind, but it's been a while since I saw that drawing. Ancient garments tended to be made from rectangles, as that's the shape that comes from a loom. The didn't do the more complicated, tailored cutting/fitting that we do today, apparently.

Actually, the Thorsbjerg trousers and the two pairs of short trousers from Denmark that I've seen patterns for are very oddly-shaped. One theory is that they developed from garments cut from animal hides, and simply kept much of that shape when translated into fabric. So it's quite possible that *tunics* were rectangular and/or woven to their finished shape, but trouser parts were definitely cut to specific complex shapes.

Coupla links:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/coldcloth.html

http://www.frojel.com/Documents/Document04.html (scroll down)

Valete,

Matthew
Matthew Amt (Quintus)
Legio XX, USA
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.larp.com/legioxx/">http://www.larp.com/legioxx/
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#23
I guess you could, Magnus. I haven't had good luck with that, because the fit is different. In the older styles, the seat is looser, and the crotch hangs a little lower, the waist is a little higher (up above the hip bones). You should be able to squat or sit without the back of the waist band pulling down like the classic plumber crack thingy.

My modern pants are much tighter fitting, and tailored differently, and they don't act the same way on the body as what I understand ancient pants do. This based on having cut up a torn up pair of old blue jeans to make a pattern. Didn't work very well. My first braccae were cut from a modified pattern for 19th Century leather fur trade era trousers. It worked ok, but those were really 4 piece shaped. To eliminate the outseam, some alterations to the waist band and hip fit is really needful, and a lot more "rise" (the measurement from waistband to waistband under the crotch) needs to be increased.

That's just my view, though, others may do things differently. Someday, a pair of Thorsbjurgs are in the mill, but lots of other things ahead of those. From the picture on your site, Matt, you're entirely correct about the strange shape. Look at how much "extra" material is in the crotch! That allows for squatting without moving the waistband. I have no idea how comfortable that would be...odds are, not very by our standards. Some of those "triangular" shapes on older clothing are really squares, seen from one side, much like the armpit/sleeve gussets on Poet shirts, for example.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#24
I had mine made by a turkish seamstress, who used patterns I supplied, based on information posted on RAT, ie the thorsburg and a couple of others.
They are comfortable enough, when squatting, and other movements.

however, the ywere not taken back by this design, and I got the impression similar patterns are still in use in turkey and that general region.
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#25
To return to the original point, someone asked what the earliest evidence was for legionaries wearing femenalia. Currently the terminus ante quem is Trajan's Dacian campaigns of the early second century AD, as they are seen for the first time on legionaries on the Adamklissi metopes from the Tropaeum Traiani.

As my group generally portrays soldiers of the mid first century AD I do not encourage the wearing of such items. I have consistently found that socks, lower leg coverings and an extra tunic do the job very well and are in accord with what we know about normal Roman practice.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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#26
Thanks very much for this t.a.q. It was me who asked and what I wanted to get originally as information although the discussion was very informative for me for doing one feminalia on my own.

So you think, it would be very illogical to do one Caesarian soldier with feminalia? I want to try to do one and use only for later soldiers or civil persons.

Kindly regards,
Lucius Rabirius
Robinson Krämer
a.k.a

Lucius Rabirius
Lykios Polystratou

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.flavii.de">http://www.flavii.de
<a class="postlink" href="http://www.hetairoi.de">http://www.hetairoi.de

"quis porro (...) Asia aut Africa aut Italia relicta Germaniam peteret, informem terris, asperam caelo, tristem cultu aspectuque, nisi si patria sit?" - Tacitus, Germania II
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#27
I don't think it would be illogical. I just wonder if they would have felt the need, when they would already have had access to their own well proven cold weather attire.

Crispvs
Who is called \'\'Paul\'\' by no-one other than his wife, parents and brothers.  :!: <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_exclaim.gif" alt=":!:" title="Exclamation" />:!:

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.romanarmy.net">www.romanarmy.net
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