Maille During the Time of Darius I

[Dan Howard]

Oh, I'll try and remember to get you the exact quotation that we're using in the course. It essentially goes something like "Said woman will make a suit of mail that will protect. It will be delivered on this date blah blah blah."

So that got me thinking, why would a woman be contracted out to make a suit of mail? Well since you guys pointed out that it would have been scale armor, NOT chain, it makes sense. I assume that she'd contract out for the scales or even have them given to her and just do all the sewing. But who knows, maybe she made the scales herself as well.

It may not be scale. If you want a literal translation then the only word you can really use is "armour". It could be scale, or lamellar, or qulted cloth, or anything tht was in use at the time.

I agree with Ruben regarding the suspiciousness of the alleged Scythian armour.

[Lepidina]

Oh, I'll try and remember to get you the exact quotation that we're using in the course. It essentially goes something like "Said woman will make a suit of mail that will protect. It will be delivered on this date blah blah blah."

So that got me thinking, why would a woman be contracted out to make a suit of mail? Well since you guys pointed out that it would have been scale armor, NOT chain, it makes sense. I assume that she'd contract out for the scales or even have them given to her and just do all the sewing. But who knows, maybe she made the scales herself as well.

It may not be scale. If you want a literal translation then the only word you can really use is "armour". It could be scale, or lamellar, or qulted cloth, or anything tht was in use at the time.

I agree with Ruben regarding the suspiciousness of the alleged Scythian armour.

Hmm...quilted cloth might be more plausible as well. Anyone got a picture of that? :mrgreen:

But even if the armor on the Met site isn't exact, it's still better than a Medieval mail shirt next to the quotation.

[PMBardunias]

For the qualifications I only consider the superficial shape of the body and not the construction, since we are often left in the dark about that with almost all tube-and-yoke representations and examples we have anyway.

I could be wrong, but the construction of every yoke I have seen indicates that the neck guard is never wider than the space between the shoulder flaps. I assume this is because the neck guard is simply a flap of the material left when the pattern of the yoke is cut out, thus it cannot be wider than the gap between the shoulder flaps.

In the images posted you can see that the neck guard is wider than the head. This means that the shoulder flaps would have to be wider than the head, leaving an unnacceptable amout of neck uncovered. To me this implies a different method of construction.

[Lepidina]

Here's the quotation about the "coat of mail"

“One coat of mail, insignum of power which will protect, is to be made by the woman Mupagalgagitum, daughter of Qarikhiya, for Shamash-iddin, son of Rimut. She will deliver in the month of Shebat one coat of mail, which is to be made and which will protect.”

Taken from clay tablet dated in the thirty-fourth year Darius I (488 B.C.)

[Dan Howard]

Here's the quotation about the "coat of mail"

“One coat of mail, insignum of power which will protect, is to be made by the woman Mupagalgagitum, daughter of Qarikhiya, for Shamash-iddin, son of Rimut. She will deliver in the month of Shebat one coat of mail, which is to be made and which will protect.”

Taken from clay tablet dated in the thirty-fourth year Darius I (488 B.C.)

Translations are rarely of any use. What language is the original in and what word is used? I'm guessing that it is just a generic term for "armor"

[Lepidina]

Here's the quotation about the "coat of mail"

“One coat of mail, insignum of power which will protect, is to be made by the woman Mupagalgagitum, daughter of Qarikhiya, for Shamash-iddin, son of Rimut. She will deliver in the month of Shebat one coat of mail, which is to be made and which will protect.”

Taken from clay tablet dated in the thirty-fourth year Darius I (488 B.C.)

Translations are rarely of any use. What language is the original in and what word is used? I'm guessing that it is just a generic term for "armor"

Dude, I don't know. I"m just the editor for the lesson. The way this project has been going, I was just happy the writer used "suit of mail" instead of "chainmail". :mrgreen:

[philsidnell]

[quote="Dan Howard
If it helps I've written a brief essay outlining the differences in terminology and why Victorian texts used the word "mail" to describe all metal armour.
[/quote]

It helped me. That essay was a small masterpiece of clarity of writing. I will never use the terms chain mail or ring mail again.

Phil Sidnell
Pen & Sword Books

[Lepidina]

It helped me. That essay was a small masterpiece of clarity of writing. I will never use the terms chain mail or ring mail again.

I got that beaten into my by my costume history teacher. Curse D&D for tainting a whole generation of armor geeks with their "chain mail" and "plate mail" crap. Though one could argue that plate over chain could be considered "plate mail" but I digress.