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Arcani
#1
hi am new here,<br>
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I was wondering if any of you could possbily help me out.<br>
<br>
What exactly are the Arcani?<br>
<br>
Thanks <p></p><i></i>
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#2
p200.ezboard.com/fromanar...1156.topic <p></p><i></i>
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#3
tis true that i first heard of them via R:Tw although i have had a great intrest in roman milatry history since i was a kid.<br>
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from websites ive visted, ive seen mention of them being bribed to report nothing on the upcoming invasion of britian by the picts, is this the "Barbarian Conspiracy" mcbishop refeared to?<br>
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also Ive seen the word arcani refear to as a roman "secert service" is this correct?<br>
Surly there is more information of these guys?<br>
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- enigma <p></p><i></i>
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#4
To develop Mike's point on the thread linked above, I find the <em>areani</em> more convincing than <em>arcani</em> - I think it was Richmond's 'Roman and Native in North Britain' that suggested the term as referring to native irregular scouts billeted in local settlements ('area') on the border, perhaps as a development of the Numeri Exploratum of previous centuries. The loyalty of these troops seems to have fallen into doubt, which would imply an initial allied or federate status. Certainly, for there to have been enough of them to have posed a threat they can't really have been a 'secret' spy or assassin network - the simple error of some copyist reading an 'e' as a 'c' at some point possibly created the mystique. <p></p><i></i>
Nathan Ross
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#5
Quote:</em></strong><hr>ive seen mention of them being bribed to report nothing on the upcoming invasion of britian by the picts, is this the "Barbarian Conspiracy" mcbishop refeared to?<hr><br>
<br>
That would be the event. But don't be fooled by this 'barbarian conspiracy'. It's common these days to refer to this event as an organised attack on Britain by Pitcs, Scots (Irish) and Saxons. Ammianus seems to tell us that all three tribes apparently coordinated this attack, and this is nowadays presented as a clear cut case of the tribes working together. On the base of the evidence, I reject that view. I think it's inconceivable to even assume that tribes so far apart could work together for such a strategic event.<br>
<br>
I've a page on [url=http://www.vortigernstudies.org.uk/artsou/ammian.htm" target="top]Ammianus Marcellinus[/url] where one can read my reasons for that view. The way I read Ammianus, either the whole world was involved in a planned attack on the Roman Empire, or this is a pure and simple classical exaggeration.<br>
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Likewise, the arcani/areani 'knowing but not telling' about this apparent event is also to be rejected as pure conjecture. Allegiance of scouts (or them being ineffective) should be reason enough for Theodosius to disband them, I think.<br>
<br>
Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#6
thanks for the replys , i did a bit more looking around the net on these dudes (a few hours ago) and did see some mention of them as scouts/border guards so its good to see this confirmed by you ross.<br>
<br>
<br>
So does this mean then that the arcani - the native scouts, are compeltely different to The Disciplina Arcani these having something to do with the early church. <p></p><i></i>
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#7
'Arcani' just means 'secret' (or 'secret people'!) in Latin, and might therefore refer to all sorts of things. There were indeed various bodies approximating a 'Roman secret service', although none of them (unless we accept the 'arcani' of Marcellinus) were called by this name. Military intelligence (i.e. outside of the borders of the empire) would have been gathered by the aforementioned Numeri Exploratum - Companies of Scouts - that were based on the frontiers, particularly in Britain. There were also the Speculatores, who, as the name implies, had an intelligence-gathering function.<br>
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Slightly more nefarious, perhaps, were the Frumentarii - 'grain men' - originally sent out by the legions to gather food supplies. As they travelled a lot and were licensed to make enquiries, they acquired both a covert espionage function and a nasty reputation for corruption. The Frumentarii were probably instituted by Domitian - by Diocletian's day they seem to have become extremely unpopular, and that emperor dissolved them. Their replacements were the 'Agentes in Rebus' (General Agents), whose bland-sounding name covered their real role as imperial messengers and (perhaps) spies. Some people make the Agentes out to be a sort of Roman Gestapo, but their main secretive duty seems to have been in opening other peoples' mail, to check that provincial officials weren't abusing their privileges in using the imperial postal service. There was also - in the later empire - the Corps of Notaries (Notarii), a civil-service body whose members seem to have been used for sensitive diplomatic missions, possibly including espoionage. <p></p><i></i>
Nathan Ross
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#8
As much as 'our' plumbata with the torture instrument. <p></p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#9
In Ancient times Diplomat = Spy.<br>
(Ambassadors were also a type of hostage, I would imagine)<br>
In R:TW, the arcani are a type of Roman ninja, totally absurd to have as an individual unit.<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>
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#10
They are like battlefield ninja from S:TW in my opinion( not my real life opinion but from the games perspective) <p></p><i></i>
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#11
heres an excerpt from an article I was reading.<br>
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<br>
The Arcani (the Roman Intelligence Service) was bribed to preserve the secrecy of the operation and the garrisons never suspected a thing as the warrior chieftains gathered their forces. At the same time the Irish fleet of curraghs (warships with high covers) left their havens and sailed eastwards, dreaming of plunder and fame. Another fleet, one manned perhaps by Saxon seaman or perhaps by Picts attacked Yorkshire. The main Saxon fleet beached further south.<br>
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from what i read it seems to me they were the CIA or CID of their time.<br>
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EDIT: Heres the whole article it makes mention of the Arcani but its about the fall of the Roman Empire in Britannia and the great Roman withdrawl.<br>
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The last of the Romans left Scotland in 410AD to return to defend Rome from the barbarous hordes already overrunning the Empire.<br>
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But even while they remained native peoples, angry because of 350 years of domination and desperate for revenge, hatched a plan that was one of the most ambitious in history. Although revenge was the principal aim, the prospect of gathering riches from the southern lands still under Roman control was also a big attraction. Raiders from the Celtic land of Ireland had begun to plunder the western edge of south Britain. Now the Irish, the Picts from the north and the Saxons from Europe were to unite to expel the Romans.<br>
<br>
The Arcani (the Roman Intelligence Service) was bribed to preserve the secrecy of the operation and the garrisons never suspected a thing as the warrior chieftains gathered their forces. At the same time the Irish fleet of curraghs (warships with high covers) left their havens and sailed eastwards, dreaming of plunder and fame. Another fleet, one manned perhaps by Saxon seaman or perhaps by Picts attacked Yorkshire. The main Saxon fleet beached further south.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The allies surged over the Roman defences with amazing ease; the Romans just did not have time to react or to light the warning beacons that would raise the alarm. The Picts took Hadrian’s Wall with their first attack while the Irish and Saxons swept onto the beaches and surged inwards. Fullofaudes, Commander-in-Chief of the Roman army in Britain, rushed towards the Wall in an attempt to restore order to the garrison but he was ambushed and killed en route. With the death of Nectaridus, Commander-in-Chief of the coastal region, in an early engagement the Romans found themselves without two of their most important generals.<br>
<br>
The Romans were in disarray and this allowed the allies to surge southwards, pillaging and destroying lands, before they laid siege to London. They had had their revenge and the Romans had been humbled. By the time Theodosius arrived with reinforcements the campaign was over and the invaders had returned northwards.<br>
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In the Great Alliance the Irish forged important links with the Picts, which were later to lead to the crowning of Kenneth mac Alpin, first King of Picts and Scots. The Irish were given land in Kintyre, which became the mainland part of the kingdom of Dal Riata. They were given a nickname that meant ‘sea raiders’. They were called the ‘Scots’. They gave their name to this nation. The Scots spread in the region so that in 50 years they had control of what is now Argyll and they were fighting with their former allies, the Picts, and the British kings of Strathclyde.<br>
<p>"Cry 'Havoc' and let slip the dogs of war!" -Shakespeare:JuliusCaesar</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=outlawstar15a2>outlawstar15a2</A> at: 12/23/04 12:44 am<br></i>
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#12
Hi Outlaw,<br>
<br>
I found the website: [url=http://netmedia.co.uk/history/week-6/index.html" target="top]netmedia.co.uk/history/week-6/index.html[/url]As far as I know, most of this article is not based on any sources.<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>The last of the Romans left Scotland in 410AD to return to defend Rome from the barbarous hordes already overrunning the Empire. <hr><br>
Scotland? All Romans left to defend Rome? That's pure myth.<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>But even while they remained native peoples, angry because of 350 years of domination and desperate for revenge, hatched a plan that was one of the most ambitious in history. <hr><br>
That's just nationalistic cr.p. As if they would remember the actual numebr! And about that plan, well, no one has been able to prove it was more than Ammianus Marcellinus exaggerating.<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Although revenge was the principal aim<hr><br>
Based on which source?<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>The Arcani (the Roman Intelligence Service) was bribed to preserve the secrecy of the operation <hr><br>
There's no source which tells us that, either.<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>At the same time the Irish fleet of curraghs (snip) The main Saxon fleet beached further south. <hr><br>
The Irish fleet? The Saxon fleet? This is just the writer of that article dreaming.<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>Fullofaudes, Commander-in-Chief of the Roman army in Britain, rushed towards the Wall in an attempt to restore order to the garrison but he was ambushed and killed en route. With the death of Nectaridus, Commander-in-Chief of the coastal region, in an early engagement the Romans found themselves without two of their most important generals. <hr><br>
I don't think any such details are to be found in the sources.<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>By the time Theodosius arrived with reinforcements the campaign was over and the invaders had returned northwards.<hr><br>
This is not what Ammianus says.<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>In the Great Alliance the Irish forged important links with the Picts, which were later to lead to the crowning of Kenneth mac Alpin, first King of Picts and Scots. The Irish were given land in Kintyre, which became the mainland part of the kingdom of Dal Riata. They were given a nickname that meant ‘sea raiders’. They were called the ‘Scots’. They gave their name to this nation. The Scots spread in the region so that in 50 years they had control of what is now Argyll and they were fighting with their former allies, the Picts, and the British kings of Strathclyde.<hr><br>
This is complete rubbish. Nothing of this can be found in any source. Is this the Kenneth Mc Alpin of the 8th century? The name 'Scotti' was far older than the late 4th century, and the presence of the Dalriada Scots also precedes this so-called 'alliance' by dacades. <p>Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert<br>
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]fectienses seniores[/url]</p><i></i>
Robert Vermaat
MODERATOR
FECTIO Late Romans
THE CAUSE OF WAR MUST BE JUST
(Maurikios-Strategikon, book VIII.2: Maxim 12)
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#13
Rome's use of arcani was not nearly as substantial as RTW would have us think. Besides they (arcani) post-date the time covered in the game. <p></p><i></i>
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