Various Aux Q\'s

[tDub248]

Hey guys, I was wondering if you could answer some Q's for me. See picture:

http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp41 ... Xspecs.jpg

Time and place: Garrisons in Judea, AD 4-34-ish

Auxiliary Shield: Assuming that even non-cavalry Auxiliary had round shields, could that shield have been flat? Would they have had the vertical/ horizontal bracing? Would the cap be iron? brass? Bronze? Would the board be faced with leather? Or backed with leather? See picture for more Q’s

Bracae: If 4 – 34 AD is to early for the Legion to wear Bracae, wouldn’t it be fine if the Aux. had them? Even if they’re rare? Shouldn’t they be styling some things from their native lands (assuming they possibly came from Germania-Brittania… I don’t know…)? Teach me!

Lorica Hamata: See picture. Do I have the right idea in the picture? Is that how the back goes?
Thanks!

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

I wonder whether auxilia in Judea would have worn bracae... I guess it's warm enough there?

[A_Volpe]

The boss could probably be iron, brass, OR bronze, and attached to the shield by drilling a hole (I'd say 4) through the outer flange of the boss, and corresponding holes through the shield - and then rivet the boss into place with copper roofing nails, carriage bolts, bronze nails, which should be just long enough to go through the layers. Then, just peen it in place, with some square brass washers.

..strange there are no rivets seen in that picture...

www.larp.com/legioxx/scutum.html

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/auxilia.html

boss thickness between 18 and 12 gauge

Deepeeka should have indivdual bosses available, also try to look for Valentine Armouries
http://www.varmouries.com/vspecial.html

they might still have bosses.

I don't think you'd want to go any thicker than 1/2" for the shield.

Maille/hammata -again, leg XX page has the best info. That style of the doubling would be closer I think, but for aux...Well, I suppose it could go either way. How it's attached is anyone's guess. It could have been hooked in the back with maille links to the back, or could have had straps.

[tDub248]

Thank you very much! I think that answers every thing!

[Peroni]

I have to disagree with the thicknesses quoted above for the shield and boss.

All original examples that I have seen or handled are between 0.8 and 1.5 mm thick. No where near 12 gauge. For the period you require we have virtually no iron bosses extant, copper alloy are far more prevalent.

Shield edging varies greatly in size and thickness of metal. Thickness of the shield board at the edge seems to be an average of 7mm. Shield board remains are nor more than 10mm at the centre in thickness.

As for shield shapes for auxiliaries.. see here..
http://www.romanarmy.net/artshields.htm
You will see that auxiliaries are depicted with rectangular shields as well as flat ovals. There is a shield cover from Roomberg which belonged to a soldier of COH XV VcR which is
particularly interesting in that it is a cover for a rectangular shield with a board wide enough to have been curved in the manner of the legionary scutum (contra Bishop and Coulston ‘The study of Roman military equipment II p255).

The estimated size for the actual shield board (according to Carol van Driel-Murray) would be in the region of 75cm wide - which would suggest that the board would have been curved to give a face of around 62cm.

The picture you posted is of a cavalryman, and therefore shows a cape doubler. As I mentioned previously in another post, the Auxiliary cohorts in Judea at the time (As referenced in the Bible (ACTS 10) were of the Italian Cohort.

Coh II Italica (based in Syria Palaestina) was raised by Augustus from 'Citizen' levies and not from the provinces (Peregrini) and would likely as not be equipped the same as their legionary counterparts for the most part.(They were also paid the same as the legionaries). A mail shirt with typical Greek pattern shoulder doubling for infantry, or plain shirt without. Kalkriese segmented cuirass or scale armour is also fine.

As Roman citizens they would not have worn trousers (Very effeminate and barbarous) They may have been worn on horseback, but as an infantryman in Judea - I would suggest not.

[M. Demetrius]

Since you're doing theatre and not historical reenactment grade gear, you could use 1/4" sanded plywood. For a clipeus, you can cut three from a single sheet by putting the long grain horizontally. Make one, and use it as a template for the rest.

If you're making curved-face shields, though, you'll have to put the long grain vertically on the shield to get a satisfactory bend. More plywood waste, but that's the way things go sometimes. Pieces of plywood have a way of getting used up for something. Luan plywood is cheaper, but doesn't hold the bend as well with only one layer. Actors don't want to carry 18lb shields, for the most part. Less weight is better in that regard.

Lemme know PM if you need more instruction on bending plywood, as I've put together a number of them from commercial BC sanded 1/4". On the brass edging, use as thin as you can get away with, as the bend will be easier to do. Some shields seem to have straight channel, and folded tabs instead of one piece. Alignment of the inside/outside tabs is easier that way.

[PhilusEstilius]

As far as the fitment of a boss to a shield I don't think that most would have been fitted permanent at all, they would have had studs going thro' the plate holes and these studs would have had holes in their ends to allow a piece of wire or a splitpin to hold them in postion. When we look at the Dubitatus center boss it gives every indication of being a parade piece, which when the studs were taken out of the battle boss the parade one could be fitted. There were no rivets or pins in this boss when it was found, infact I read some where that it was thought Dubitatus lost his shield in the river Tyne however I would conclude that poor Junius lost his life in the Tyne when his ship went down and his parade boss is from his baggage.

[Peroni]

When we look at the Dubitatus center boss it gives every indication of being a parade piece

Are you suggesting that all decorative bosses we see with engraved decoration and medusa heads/representations of 'Africa' etc etc were all parade gear? This one (A cavalryman's shield boss) still has it's rivets in place..


The boss from Vindonissa (V565) of the same type as the Tyne boss is similarly decorated, (selectively tinned copper alloy) as are nearly all Pompeii locket plates and let's not forget the Type A and B dagger sheaths with their intricate inlaid silver and enamelling. All these items were heavily decorated and were standard equipment.
Why should not the shield bosses from the Tyne and Vindonissa be standard kit?

[PhilusEstilius]

Adrian. I would suggest that a great deal of this type of shield boss may well have been used in this way, I do agree that soldiers did have very decorative swords and daggers of course. this was a way of carrying a lot of their wealth around with them. However when it came to parades I'm sure indeed there were an awfull lot of dandies around, let's just look at the Cavalry for a start these guys had very decorative coverings for their horses, chamfrons, sports helmets and other such things. I am also sure that the same kind of situation was there for the infantry as well, infact after one third of my own life being spent in the military there were some parades that even I enjoyed for to be honest any soldier will tell you there is a certain degree of swagger about it all.

[Tarbicus]

let's just look at the Cavalry for a start these guys had very decorative coverings for their horses, chamfrons, sports helmets and other such things.

But who says they were decorative at all, and only used for parade? It's certainly the traditional view, but has been questioned seriously of late to the point where I personally believe a stronger case needs to be made for them having been parade equipment, and not standard. Just as centurios and common soldiers wore there medals in battle (Caesar tells us so), there are many who still believe they would have been taken off and put somewhere safe before battle.

[tDub248]

cool, thats good input, thanks. I'm dying to make myself a shield! It seems like an easy enough project to try doing authentically (although I'm definitely using acrylic paint!).

Hey, looking at that website that Peroni posted, what's going on with the Belteus on the soldiers? it looks like there's a plate attached to the apron, which is under the crossed belts... ?

http://www.romanarmy.net/images/Pages/a ... hield1.jpg
http://www.romanarmy.net/artshields.htm

[M. Demetrius]

The "Authentic method" of making a scutum involved using strips of birch or other wood, three layers thick, alternating direction, glued together layer by layer and covered with cloth/felt/rawhide and then paint. Somewhere there is a sort of step by step, or a link to one. Can't remember the thread name now, though.

[PhilusEstilius]

Jim. I made a reconstruction of the Trimontium sports helmet some years ago and got permission to go to the National Museum of Scotland to measure the original, and believe me I was realy surprised just how thin the bowl was. The peak and neckguard are around 20 to 22 guage however the top third of the bowl is in the region of only 5 thou' of an inch in thickness, I just do not know how this helmet survived in it's day let alone after almost 2 millenia in the ground.

Here are links to the original and my repro' and I think I can most definately say it was never used in battle, OH and the mask I fitted was also found at Trimontium but had no helmet so I married the two together for the Trimontium trust at Melrose.

http://www.northumberland-computers.com ... roman7.jpg

http://www.northumberland-computers.com ... oman10.jpg

[tDub248]

Great work Brian! thats look really cool! Could you list some of the steps on how you made it?

[tDub248]

I figured I'd run it by you guys before I start. http://i396.photobucket.com/albums/pp41 ... Scutum.jpg
it's not the typical oval shape that most Auxiliaries make, but it based on the one here: http://www.romanarmy.net/artshields.htm

I think I'll do some designs into the boss, but not a whole lot... being Auxiliaries, what kind of images might you see in the shield boss? ideas anyone?
I'm just going to put one horizontal bar, bracing the handle on back, and probably use cotton fabric to cover the back.