Late Roman Militias and Private Armies

[Vadormarius]

Greetings. I'm just getting started in late Roman reenactment (late 4th/early 5th century) and am trying to decide what would be the best impression for me to do. I am way too old for the field army (39 years) and will be even older when I get my equipment all together even for a basic impression. I was thinking that I may be able to portray a town militia member or a member of an illegal "private army" held by a wealthy estate holder. The question is, did these formations exist in the late Roman world? Thanks for any help. Jim <p></p><i></i>

[Theodosius the Great]

Ave,<br>
<br>
I, like you, have started to get gear for a late Roman impression. I already have most of my gear and should have the rest by the end of the year.<br>
<br>
I find it interesting that you would do an impression in accordance with your age. From what I've read, the older men would be stationed or left on the frontiers and these men were collectively known as <em>limitanei</em>. I don't know that they were dressed or armored any differently compared to someone in a mobile field army, although they were a neglected part of the entire army. Perhaps over time they became less armored than their field army counterparts (no chainmail).<br>
<br>
Quote:</em></strong><hr>I may be able to portray a town militia member or a member of an illegal "private army" held by a wealthy estate holder<hr><br>
<br>
Some generals in the fifth century and onward had their personal retainers called "<em>buccellarii</em>. Again, I don't think these men would look any different from someone in the imperial field army. Although they might start to look more Gothic at this period. Since the battle of Adrianople, Emperors in both empires employed barbarian troops who fought under their own leaders. These troops were known as <em>foederati</em> or federates.<br>
<br>
Hope this helps a little.<br>
<br>
-Theo <p></p><i></i>

[Lucius Aurelius Metellus]

Hi Vadormarius,<br>
Welcome to the list, it's good to see another person interested in the late Roman period. Where are you from? <p>Lucius Aurelius Metellus, draconarius, Secunda Brittanica</p><i></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Vadormarius/Jim,<br>
<br>
It seems we're in the same boat! I'm dooing 4th-5th c. as well, and I'm 40. However, why should that be 'way too old' for the field army?<br>
<br>
For one, even if it were no-one thinks I'm 40 (darn-I gave away the secret! ), so I get away with it.<br>
<br>
And then, 40 seems to be the 'top' age, so I dare say it's not 'way too old' in my opinion. Or are you grey already?<br>
<br>
But from the point of few of modern re-enactors, 40 today is usually in much better shape than in those days, when 60 was an age not commonly reached. So I'd say 39 is A-OK.<br>
<br>
Besides that, even if the Field Army would seem to be 'elite' with younger soldiers, I can assure you this is not so. Of course the <em>comitatenses</em> could choose from the best recruits and weapons, but from time to time there were units from the <em>limitanei</em> that were upgraded to serve as <em>pseudo-comitatenses</em> in the Field Army.<br>
<br>
So please stop worrying about your age and any inhibitations regarding re-enactment.<br>
<br>
of course, should you still want to do other military types, there's a range of choice. <em>Buccellarius</em>, indeed, veterans guarding the estates of the rich, is one. Or city militia, which would fit for the 5th c. or 4th c. regions in dire straits. My favorite is 'guard of the bishop', or how about a bishop himself? There were some 4th/5th-c. religious characters around who came straight from the military. St martin is one, St Germanus another, the latter even involved in military actions in post-Roman Britain.<br>
Or how about a Germanic federate, who fought in all Roman armies and would not be restricted to any age? These fellas wore anything their Roman comrades-in-arms wore, and sometimes spoke better Latin.<br>
<br>
Just let me know if you want more info.<br>
<br>
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]fectienses seniores[/url]<br>
<br>
<p>Valete, <br>
Valerius/Robert <br>
fectienses seniores</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 12/12/04 5:11 pm<br></i>

[Vadormarius]

First, to answer Lucius' question. I'm from North Carolina. If I'm not mistaken, you're from GA, which means you're not tooooo far. I'm the guy with the rather sad spear that I think you, or someone I think is you, reviewed. I'm getting that spear deficit corrected. I'm having Holger Ratsdorf make me a correct 5th century head (with correct material to boot), and I'm going to have a shaft made that copies some of the bog finds. I'm also going to have him make some other pieces of kit as time and money allow.<br>
<br>
Second, to answer Valerius/Robert's question. I'm getting a little gray and covered with wrinkles. The good news is that it looks like I've got a lot of interesting choices. I definitely like city militia, and Germanic Federate seems appropriate as my ancestors come from southern Germany. Guard of the Bishop? If I can improve my behavior! I think that he'd excommunicate me on the spot. Seriously, could you get me some more information on the city militias and the Guard of the Bishop? Most of the references I have make mention of the limitani and Germanic Federate but have no information on other kinds of units. On an side note, one of the most difficult things that I've found is that most references tend to lump anything from 3rd to 6th century together as one group even though there were several key changes along the way. This makes it difficult to tell what is good for what period of time. <p></p><i></i>

[Robert Vermaat]

Vadormarius,<br>
City militias were not anything standard. When towns were under attack though, several groups could be defending them.<br>
<br>
Officially, citizens could not bear arms. In times of crisis though it was accepted that citizens defended their town, so I gather they had the ability to produce arms. Being not anything standard, I would expect spears and knives at best, maybe rough shields.<br>
Then there were the vetrans of course, who possibly owned their equipment, or else maybe had permission to keep weapons at home after retirement. They would have anything a regular soldier would have.<br>
The third group present in towns could be parts of the field army, the <em>comitatenses</em>. They were billeted in towns, and there are enough recorded incidents where they were the primary defenders of the town on such occasions.<br>
One might also find members of 'private' (not very large) armies, the <em>bucellarii</em>. I expect these would lend a hand, but then again.. Like the militias, you'd expect no standard weapons here, but indoubtedly better equipped. Being personal retainers, you might find some sort of uniform.<br>
<br>
About 'guard of the bishop', i can't say much. There were big differences in bishops, to start with. A bishop could be anything from a poor cleric to a very wealthy noble who wielded such power to make emperors blush. their personal retainers would of course reflect such status. Generally speaking, there would be no 'Church-troops', but because bishops would be responsible for money I have no doubt they had guards around. And there you have such cases as the Frankish general/warlord Arbogast, who gave up his power over the west bank of the Rhine to Clovis, in exchange for a bishopric. No doubt many of his troops followed him. <p>Valete,<br>
Valerius/Robert<br>
[url=http://www.fectio.org.uk/" target="top]fectienses seniores[/url]</p><i></i>

[FAVENTIANVS]

I'm 30 and just finished my equipment: clothes, mail, helmet, spatha, clipeus, sagum, balteus, pileus, calcei-carbatinae, and I've ordered my last new item: the hasta.<br>
Next thing I'll get will be a francisca, I'd like to mix both Roman and gothic fashion as well as from any other part of the empire.<br>
<br>
Ivan Perelló. <p>SEPTIMANI SENIORES - CATALONIA www.septimaniseniores.uni.cc <img src="http://geocities.com/ivarmaelstrom/septimaniseniores2.jpg" style="border:0;"/></p><i></i>

[Vadormarius]

I found the graves registry located elsewhere on this site, after I posted my question. Sure enough, most of the soldiers listed didn't make it to my age, but a few did, and a few of those were still listed as trooper (the ones I am thinking of were all in Ala.) They must not have been the best at soldiering, as most soldiers had received significant promotion well before then. Given these soldiers apparent lack of prowess, no one will be know I really meant to mess up that drill in the name of authenticity, or if I just screwed it up naturally! <p></p><i></i>

[Theodosius the Great]

Valdormarius,<br>
<br>
If you're that concerned about your age, maybe you should be one of the triarii from the Republican era.<br>
<br>
-Theo <p></p><i></i>