Woad,woad and more woad

[Na Saighdiuir]

Firstly lads i apologise if this topic has been brought up before but after painstakingly searching just about everywhere i cant find a single mention anywhere.Ive a few questions to throw out on this.

So here we go,what plant exactly was this woad made from?? Was it a case of taking the specific plant and smearing it all over or was there a ritual application?? Was the use of woad limited to the peoples of Britannia or was it an imported idea from the continent?? Finally has anyone a time period for its use(ie when it was first mentioned or when it died out?)

Im sorry for bombarding ye with so many questions but I cant find any sources on the matter yet and its beginning to get at me.
Any views will be gratefully accepted.

[caiusbeerquitius]

[url:1m9t9vps]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woad[/url]

[Na Saighdiuir]

Well goddamn it howd i miss that?? :oops: :oops: :oops: .Thanks for the link caiustarquitius. Eyesight must be going in my old age.

Anyhow are there any opinions out there on the preparation of woad for body paint? Or does anyone know if it was limited to the Picts or Britons in general?

[Medicus matt]

I don't think that there's any evidence that anybody did use it as a body paint. It certainly doesn't work as a tattoo ink. Seen it tried, heard the whimpers, seen the scars.

The dye CAN be used as a body paint and will stain the skin for a couple of weeks but actually getting the dye from the raw plant is a tricky process (especially when compared with other dye plants). There have been some claims that woad would have been used as a body paint because of it's medical properties (it's an anti-bacteriant) but there's nothing I'm aware of to actually back up the view that woad is the substance described by Caesar when he talks of the Britons dyeing themselves.

You might want to get hold of a copy of "Woad, tattooing and identity in later iron age and early Roman Britain" by Gillian Carr.

[M. Demetrius]

From what I've read, woad makes excellent fabric dye, but poor body paint. And should NEVER be used as tattoo ink. When Caesar wrote about the body-painted warriors, he didn't say they painted themselves with woad with certainty. The word "vitrum" can also be translated "glass", which at that time was often a slightly greenish color. The color could just as easily be derived from copper ore, which make a longer-lasting green skin stain (ever wear a brass or copper ring or bracelet?) that does not easily wear off. I don't think it would be safe to tattoo with copper compounds, either, but maybe I'm just too conservative about injecting foreign substances under my skin. hock:

It's a prevailing belief, though, that the Picts tattooed themselves with woad.
http://www.hippy.com/albion/woad_and_mo ... yart_i.htm
http://www.everybody-loves-tink.com/gro ... f=59&t=135
I used to have the link to the hospital venture written by the fellow who attempted to tattoo someone with woad, but it's lost now. Blue food color works pretty well for a day or so, if you let it dry before rubbing on it, or a blue Sharpie works, too. Men's shaving lotion will be a help in removing the Sharpie, as the denatured alcohol helps remove the ink. I suppose Vodka would do the same thing, but I haven't tried that.

[Matthew Amt]

There are some modern authorities who believe that the entire description of Britain--including the blue-colored bodies bit--was not written by Caesar but was a later addition. Since that's the main evidence for painted or tattooed Britons, well.... It certainly doesn't give any indication of whether this was done in swirly patterns like many modern reenactors like, or more like American Indian warpaint, or head to toe "dip", or hidden therapeutic tattoos like the Iceman.

I'm not sure of the method for extracting indigotin (the blue pigment) from woad, but probably it involves taking a certain part of the plant and either cooking it or perhaps steeping it in urine or some other chemical. Urine was used in the later use of indigo dyes. But I don't think you can just smear the leaves on you!

I've also heard that woad is not even indiginous to Britain, though I don't know if that's true or not. If it is true, it's another potential hole in the concept of woad-coated Britons!

Here, this might help:

http://www.markland.org/pages/songbook.php#Woad

Matthew

[Na Saighdiuir]

Thanks very much guys for the info...your responses are certainly thought provoking and useful. Cheers

[M. Demetrius]

All I know about making dye from woad is that the ancients fermented it twice using urine as an agent. That's enough to keep me from further alienating my neighbors, and I don't reckon I'd do it in the house, or else I'd find myself on the front porch, drenched in my chemistry project. The wifemate wouldn't appreciate it one bit, odds are.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well, I did see a documentary where a bowl with the remains of a substance containing woad dye in an organic human excretian was analyzed, and the context of the find was
interpreted as a group of warriors in a circle , with a bowl and some woad dye, getting all excited about an upcoming ritual or battle.....need I continue? hock:

Needless to say, it was enough to put me off the idea of being a 'blue painted warrior'! :lol: :twisted:

[M. Demetrius]

Eeewww. Ick.
:oops:

[Na Saighdiuir]

Needless to say, it was enough to put me off the idea of being a 'blue painted warrior'!

Im still up for it!!

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Needless to say, it was enough to put me off the idea of being a 'blue painted warrior'!

Im still up for it!!

I can only say.....Ew! Ikkkk! :lol:

[M. Demetrius]

Well said, GJC, glad you thought of that! Heh.
:lol:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Well said, GJC, glad you thought of that! Heh.
:lol:

I was going to say ''In the words of tha tmuch venerated wordsmith Demetrius', but was lacking energy at the time.... :roll: :oops: :lol:

[M. Demetrius]

Try to stay warm out there, and watch for ice on the deck, GJC. It's a long way to the water...walk circumspectly, bro.