Celtiberian swords

[Jesper D]

But it is not the grandfather of the Mainz. As prof. Quesada(thersites) and Untilatie explained above, this type of sword, i.e. Quesada type VI ('Arcobriga") is not a predecessor to the gladius. The predecessor of the gladius hispaniensis seems to be a modified version of the la tene 1 sword from central europe.

The atrophied antenna swords(in this case Quesada type VI) are older iberian swords that are superficially simililar, but in fact quite different from the gladius hispaniensis, its predecessor the la tene 1 sword, and later its successor the gladius mainz.

[Retógenes]

But it is not the grandfather of the Mainz. As prof. Quesada(thersites) and Untilatie explained above, this type of sword, i.e. Quesada type VI ('Arcobriga") is not a predecessor to the gladius. The predecessor of the gladius hispaniensis seems to be a modified version of the la tene 1 sword from central europe.

The atrophied antenna swords(in this case Quesada type VI) are older iberian swords that are superficially simililar, but in fact quite different from the gladius hispaniensis, its predecessor the la tene 1 sword, and later its successor the gladius mainz.

Well, I'm not an expert and the last thing I'd want is to discuss with Sr. Quesada in his own terrain, maybe he's right and the predecessor is the La Tene 1, but this Arcóbriga sword actually looks almost completely similar to the gladius hispaniensis Mainz type. Come one, just have a look, they're twin swords.

[Jesper D]

Hey,
I couldnt agree more, they do look very similar to my untrained eyes. Don't forget that these swords are separated by at least a century in time though, more likely 150-350 years actually. Chronologically in between them you will find the gladius hispaniensis, which is much longer and straighter and thus much more similar to the iberian modified la tene 1 sword than the Quesada type VI sword.

[Retógenes]

Hello again. Following my last topic, here are some more images of the forging of a celtiberian sword that I told you:

http://www.armasblancas.com.ar/foros/ka ... das-3.html

Isaac Rozada, the forger, says that the sword is on its way to be finished, but it first needs fixes on the blade, hilt and antennae (he's going to make bigger antennae)

[Thersites]

Just a short note.

'Arcobriga' (my Type VI) swords have an average blade lenght of 34.5 cm. Most of them are VERY short (longest blade 45 cm, exceptional). They are VERY waisted, edges are curved, blades have fullers and grooves. Handgrip includes a peculiar 'step' guard and atrophied antennae pommels

The 'Celtiberian version' of the La Tène I swords (late 3rd C BC, without metal scabbard) (my Type VIIC or 'gladius hispaniensis' prototype) have an average blade lenght of 62 cm, no fullers and have parallel or very slightly waisted blades with long points. Simple guard and no athropied antennae pommels, but probably a single button or wooden pommel.

Obviously, IMHO, Type VI cannot be held to be a good cadidate for the Roman Republican sword, about 65 cm. in blade length, no fullers, slightly waisted blade, simple guard and trilobate wooden pommel.

[Gobae]

2.Apart from good iron and workmanship what set the celtiberian leaf-shaped short sword apart from say a standard xiphos? Width and different leaf-shapes yes? Better thrusting characteristics? Can't really understand why a roman would be impressed by the celtiberian sword unless it was purely a workmanship, metal quality issue they commented on not the blade-shape itself.

From what I've seen of assayed Celtic ironwork ("The Celtic Sword" by Radomir Pleiner, "Early Irish Ironwork" by BG Scott) it's all over the board with regard to ore, bloom, and heat treatment quality. You could end up with a smith who knew how to do proper heat treatment but was cursed with a bloom that had next to no carbon and therefore the process was for naught. Alternately, there are examples of smiths doing no heat treatment and just lucking out that the ore and resulting bloom were fantastic for blade work.