Bronze tubing and pressure

[HHornblower]

Dear all,

As some of you know, i'm currently doing a small thesis on Greek Fire (Yes I know it is Byzantine warfare). My question: How much pressure could bronze tubes and cauldrons take? Ie, could liquids inside be pressurized and to what extent before the entire thing pops? Just to be safe i've put it here, with engineering.

Many thanks,

Regards,

Hans

[Epictetus]

I would suppose that it could vary widely, based upon the thickness and quality of the materials, as well as the craftsmanship.

[Eleatic Guest]

It would be also of interest whether the stream of liquid was ejected continuously or with interruptions. This question has been hardly addressed in the scientific debate, at least in the half dozen articles I read.

[Scythian]

It would be also of interest whether the stream of liquid was ejected continuously or with interruptions. This question has been hardly addressed in the scientific debate, at least in the half dozen articles I read.

I'm pretty certain it wouldn't be continuous. The earliest Greek "flamethrower" used a bellows to blow the flames but didn't project anything (circa 424 BC used by the boeotians)
Heron of Alexandria suggested that a large syringe could be used as a flame thrower.
References to flame weapons are often vegue but I don't recall ever reading anything to suggest a continuous pressure being maintained for such a machine. It would be easy enough to do, simply by adding an air bladder, but there is no evidence for it, nor would there be any need for it.

[Scythian]

Dear all,

As some of you know, i'm currently doing a small thesis on Greek Fire (Yes I know it is Byzantine warfare). My question: How much pressure could bronze tubes and cauldrons take? Ie, could liquids inside be pressurized and to what extent before the entire thing pops? Just to be safe i've put it here, with engineering.

Many thanks,

Regards,

Hans

I think the best place to look for the information you are looking for is at fire engines. As examples of liquids being projected under pressure, those are the best documented and best developed examples you are ever likely to find.

[Sean Manning]

Do we know how thin bronze pipes were sealed? That might affect things. Thick, heavy pipes could be cast. I'm remembering the scenes in Lest Darkness Fall where Martinus tries to make tubing for a still, although that was researched seventy years ago.

[HHornblower]

I have discarded the pressure-hypotheses because it is simply too dangerous to have on a wooden vessel.
I'm going to do a few rough calculations on the Byrne-Haldon model (With a double-action force-pump).
Thus, i need the dimensions of the force-pumps in the Roman timeframe. A few have been found. Does anyone know where I can get hold of some dimensions?

Regards,

Hornblower