Celtic Gallic War Find

[Anonymous]

I just read on the news of a find near Naves of artifacts buried near a gallic/roman temple. Apparently it includes war trumpets and helmets.<br>
<br>
Does anyone have any further information? Do any of you RAT people live close to the find?<br>
<br>
Kevin Aschenmeier <p></p><i></i>

[richsc]

Thanks to Dave Meadows for the following link and one photo of FIVE intact carnyx:<br>
<br>
Gallic War Find <p>Legio XX<br>
Caput dolet, pedes fetent, Iesum non amo<br>
<br>
</p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=richsc@romanarmytalk>RichSC</A> at: 11/28/04 2:28 pm<br></i>

[Anonymous]

Magnificent!<br>
Incidentally, since I work at AFP wire service I think I should read the wire more carefully... <p></p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

FANTASTIC!<br>
I can't wait to see more, and hope my Carnyx looks something like these originals!<br>
Flags on them? Perhaps they had fabric bodies like a draco. And all those new helmets!<br>
This find may well inspire the creation of more celtic groups.<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

blimey-- and me friend has just sent me a dutch news story about this-- for me to try and translate-- just finished it and here it is in english and with pics!!!<br>
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but seriously a magnificent find! <p><img src="http://homepage.ntlworld.com/mark.martin/forum/mark.gif
" width="100" height="100" align="right">
</p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

An amazing find.....more pics and description in French here. You can also enlarge the photos by clicking on them. www.limousin.culture.gouv...tignac.htm<br>
<br>
Some key bits:-<br>
-c 500 objects<br>
-c 10 swords, most which would have had wooden pommels but one of bronze<br>
-4 spears<br>
-1 Celtic shield umbo<br>
-9 helmets, 8 of bronze and one of iron with bronze sheathing. One unique one with a swan's neck and head, and the neck guard being the swan's tail (possibly a parallel helmet illustrated in Junkelmann's Turnierwaffen)<br>
-Bronze boars and animal standards (with glass eyes)<br>
-5 carnynxes<br>
-And an Asterix-style iron cauldron!<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=paulusbrittanicus>Paulus Brittanicus</A> at: 11/28/04 7:04 pm<br></i>

[Paullus]

Wow! Intact carnyx, that is just an amazing find. Plus I'm eager to get a look at pictures of those helmets! Any word exactly what time period they were? It would be nice to have some new examples of the Agen and Port types to see if it gives any hints on Imperial Gallic A development. No word on what the iron-bronze example was?<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

The report in French says that the Gall-Roman temple is 1st/ 2nd Century AD, but that the carnynxes and other finds themselves may be much older. They look much like the Arc of Orange - and if so, the ones that have no archaeological proof (yet) become more probable...<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

Kevin,<br>
<br>
thank You for sharing this absolute sensational news with us. Marvellous finds, I can't wait to see all these extraordinary pieces restored.<br>
<br>
Uwe <p></p><i></i>

[Daniel S Peterson]

The fact that virtually all of the helmets are bronze leads me to suspect that it is earlier than Caesar's time and the heyday of the Agen and Port helmet types. It may represent equipment closer to Punic Wars, which would be just as exciting. It would not surprise me if the known Roman temple had been built on a much earlier Celtic religious site.<br>
<br>
I doubt there is much of a connection between this "swan" helmet and the one in the Junkelmann book, which I believe is definately Roman, from the 2nd-3rd century. The book isn't handy now, but from ememory I believe that helmet, is a private detector find from Holland.<br>
<br>
Dan <p></p><i></i>

[Uwe Bahr]

Dan or Brittanicus,<br>
<br>
in the moment I don't recall at all to the 'Swan Helmet', could You post a photo or tell me where in Junkelmann's book I can find it?<br>
<br>
BTW, Dan, nice to have You back here after Your Rhodian exile (like Tiberius it was not really voluntary, I suppose ).<br>
<br>
Greets - Uwe <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 11/29/04 3:18 pm<br></i>

[Anonymous]

Hi ,<br>
<br>
The Swan helmet is on page 66 of Junkelmann's Romische Kampf und Turnierrustung. (Btw, poor phrasing by me earlier when posting in haste- this is definitely Roman, but I wondered whether there was any stylistic link from an earlier Celtic helmet style). The description says it is from Vechten in the Netherlands, 2/3rd C AD, and is in bronze or "messingblech". It looks as if originally it would have had a further helmet underneath it.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
Paulus <p></p><i></i>

[Tasciavanous]

I have just finished translating a rather exited E mail from my friend Patrice The Carnyx "flags" may be a mistranslation, but they are described as bronze tubes of just over 2m in length 4 with Boar heads and 1 with a serpent or could be snake head. I say or snake to distinguish between sea serpent or serpentine dragon type devices but I will try to get a definitive answer on this one soon. one of the helmets is described as decorated with golden leaves but I don't know if this is one of the bronze ones or not. there were 470 artifacts or fragments of artifacts including the ones that intrigue me 5 "war signs" 4 boars and 1 horse <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

That is definitely the strangest helmet I've met so far..<br>
It reminds me of an ancient roman writer, however, who wrote something about the Gauls wearing helmets looking like the front of birds. Anybody remembers that? <p></p><i></i>

[Paullus]

Vaguely somewhere I remember reading about that, Diodorus maybe??? I also remember seeing a show, Ancient Warriors, that had a bunch of Celtic reenactors prancing around before battle, with a chieftain in an incredibly ugly and stupid looking helmet with a (bronze?) bird mounted on the top. It was a typical Montefortino type I believe but it looked very impractical.<br>
<br>
I'm chomping at the bit to see these helmets! <p></p><i></i>