pelt drape for normal legionary?

[Furius]

Hi everybody!

After some reading and enormous use of the "Search"-button I still have one question concerning the pelt drapes of - for example - a signifer:

Is there any evidence for a normal legionary wearing some kind of wolf-pelt or else? I mean, I know about velites, the signifer, aquilifer and so on - but a miles gregarius? :?

In a comic book I once saw the troops of Scipio Africanus wearing the fur of a cheetah, but I found definitely no evidence for that in real history.

Thanks in advance,

Furius

[Arminius Primus]

Ave Furius, et al,

Do you mean as a badge of rank or as a method to keep warm?

On the cold weather thread we were discussing winter combat and what if any special clothes were available to the legionnaire. In our favorite movie, now blessed by CNN as historically accurate, Maximus has a fur cloak to keep out some of that damp cold of Germania. ...but as I remember the common miles were standing around without even a sagum to keep warm.

Our friends in St. Petersburg completed a tactical march in pretty much standard legion uniform and found it very cold!

I don't know of anything in the epigraphic record that depicts winter wear like fur cloaks, pelts... but sheep skins would have been available and seem to be at least plausible.

Regards from a much warmer Balkans,........ 0 today!

Arminius Primus aka Al

[Peroni]

There are some depictions of bearded auxiliary soldiers on the Column of Trajan at Rome wearing animal pelts.

[Furius]

Wow, thanks to both of you for the fast answers.

Do you mean as a badge of rank or as a method to keep warm? ... Maximus has a fur cloak to keep out some of that damp cold of Germania

What I actually ment in detail was: Would it be okay for a roman legionary in midwinter somewhere in the German woods to wear a pelt drape like Velites would do, but without the head, just consisting of back and legs? Or would he risk severe punishment by his officers, because that might be mistaken for a signifer´s bagde of rank?

Thanks again, Furius

[Matthew Amt]

Cloaks made of animal hides or fur were well known in that era among non-Roman cultures, but as far as I've seen they were NOT just pelts with the legs and tails hanging off. All the examples found in bogs and such are shaped, usually trapezoidal (narrower at the top than the bottom), and sewn together from a number of odd-shaped pieces. There could be laces or toggles at the throat to fasten it. I believe that cow, sheep, and goat were the most common, but deer or more "challenging" animals are probably likely. The cloak could be worn with the hair on the inside or the outside.

In his account of the civil wars of 68-69 AD, Tacitus writes that the residents of Rome didn't even realize at first that Vitellius' legionaries were Romans, because of their barbaric dress. I just can't remember if he mentions animal hides specifically, but that would be your smoking gun.

Valete,

Matthew

[Furius]

Thanks a lot! I'll start reading Tacitus immediately.

[P. Clodius Secundus]

What I actually ment in detail was: Would it be okay for a roman legionary in midwinter somewhere in the German woods to wear a pelt drape like Velites would do, but without the head, just consisting of back and legs? Or would he risk severe punishment by his officers, because that might be mistaken for a signifer´s bagde of rank?

Only if it came from the Centurio's favorite girlfriend... oops, I mean sheep. :lol:
Seriously, having worn a fairly large bear pelt through a number of cold New England winter events, I would rather wear my wool cloak. The pelt doesn't help your torso much because it doesn't wrap around your shoulders like a sagum or paenula. The full pelt I wear as a Cornicien does keep the wind off the back of my head and neck (which also makes it hotter than Hades in the summer), but again, I'd rather have a hooded cloak. On the frontiers, a couple of sheep skins sewn together and oiled up with the warm and fuzzy side in would work. I don't know of any historical evidence though.