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09-10-2004, 04:41 PM

Hi Vorty, 
 
the layers of wood I had in mind are 1/8 inch plywood. by screwing/nailing a metal strip onto the seam until the glue dries, it shouldn't come apart later. As for your Idea, 
 
"pushing down several thin layers of softened (wet?) wood and glueing these together until they are dry" 
 
Have you had success with this method? My idea is theoretical right now, but I thought it would be easier to get a uniformly domed result than trying to find a way to weight down the entire circumference against a central fulcrum to acheive a dome. I could be wrong. 
 
Regards, 
Gaius Marius Aquilus

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 09-10-2004, 05:25 PM

Ok, I understand what you are describing now, Gaius. Thanks for helping. Do you intend to try that method any time soon? When you do, let me know how your results turned out? Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

09-11-2004, 02:16 AM

Ave Lucius, 
 
It might be a while before I actually try it out. I have a half-finished scutum that I started about two years ago, and a butted-ring hamata, a crest block, and a couple of other things to finish first. 
 
Vale, 
Gaius Marius Aquilus

Theodosius the Great · 09-15-2004, 07:45 AM

Robert, 
 
Is there a way to have a dished shield made in such a way as to accomodate a spear ? 
 
In other words, can a spear be mounted onto a concave shield ? Or does the shield have to be flat ? 
 
Thanks. 
-Theo

aitor iriarte · 09-15-2004, 09:05 AM

Theo, 
Why do you want to accomodate a spear onto your shield? 
Which kind of spear? 
 
Aitor

Crispvs · 09-15-2004, 07:15 PM

Rather than weighting the shield down around the edges, would it not be easier to place the flat shield blank, once soaked, on a ring shaped support (or a ring of supports) and place a heavy weight in its centre for a day or two, causing it to stretch into a dished shape? 
 
Crispvs

Theodosius the Great · 09-15-2004, 09:32 PM

Avete, 
 
Well, I've seen illustrations and mosaics of late Romans carrying one or two spears in their left hand while simultaneously holding the shield. I assume there must be some brackets attached to the back of the shield in which the spears are slid through. 
 
Or am I wrong about that ? Is it possible to hold two spears and a shield in one hand ? 
 
Aitor, just a spear with a leaf shaped head. It's being made as we speak . 
 
Valete. 
-Theo

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 09-16-2004, 01:01 AM

Hi Crispus, 
That seems like a very good idea! Do you think it could work? Right now I am exploring any plausible methods for building these shields. Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

aitor iriarte · 09-16-2004, 04:30 AM

Theo, 
If I recall well, the only thing that was hel inside a shield were the plumbatas (probably, those of the short kind), which Vegetius mentions that were carried inside the shiled's concavity. Longer javelins (even plumbatas of the longer sort) were probably carried in quivers, like Mauritius states... 
 
Aitor

**Robert Vermaat** · 09-16-2004, 07:42 AM

Hi Gaius, 
 
It's the way our shields were made. This is a picture from Jean-Olivier Bourbon's [url=http://cannesetbatons.free.fr/site/visite.htm" target="top]website[/url]: 
<img src="http://cannesetbatons.free.fr/images/photos/photo24.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
 
Crispus, 
Jean-Olivier places the layers over a domed shape, glues them together and subsequently screws them into place to dry (see the picture above). 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

**Robert Vermaat** · 09-16-2004, 07:45 AM

Theo, Aitor, 
 
Would it be possible that short spears were held not in the middle of the shaft but near the end? That way, I assume even spears could be held in a dished shield. I'll try it out soon. 
Theo, in these images, is the spear visible on both ends of the shield? 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

Theodosius the Great · 09-16-2004, 10:00 AM

Robert, 
 
Here's the mosaic from the Imperial Villa at Piazza Armerina in Sicily. 
 
<img src="http://members.aol.com:/rcasti998/lateromans" style="border:0;"/> 
 
Looks like only the upper portions of the spears are visible. 
 
-Theo

**Robert Vermaat** · 09-17-2004, 05:47 AM

Just as I thought, he could hold the ends in his fist. 
Remember though, this is a hunting scene, and weapons may be held differently here then on the battlefield. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

Nathan Ross · 09-17-2004, 07:49 AM

Actually, I was meaning to ask about the spears/scuta combo, as it does turn up in several places, particularly for this period. My favourite sources of contention, the arches of Galerius and Constantine, both show soldiers holding spears in the left hand behind a shield - the shield itself is either carried on a shoulder strap or some sort of arm sling (?). Here's an image from the Arch of Galerius, posted by Gregg on another thread - 
 
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/ZorchG/ArchGalerius.jpg" style="border:0;"/>

Theodosius the Great · 09-17-2004, 08:26 AM

Robert, 
 
I also noticed in the latest episode of "Decisive Battles" (the battle of Adrianople) that the rank and file had their swords unshethed and held two full length spears in their left hands while holding their scuta. 
 
But of course I don't trust the series when it comes to accuracy . 
 
You're probably right about that mosaic being unreliable since it displays a hunting scene. The officer is probably using light javelins or something similar. 
 
Nathan, 
 
From your picture I don't see any straps that suspend the shield from falling. Are you sure he's not holding it with his left arm ? 
 
-Theo

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