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**Robert Vermaat** · 08-27-2004, 11:28 AM

Hi Theo, 
 
Nice picture! I recently noticed it in a Dutch book about the Roman army (without the proper reference though), so yes, please, what's the book's name and ISBN? 
 
Do you notice what's wrong though? If all the units painted the same symbol over their shields (and Connolly apparently showed the rushed nature of that very well I think), the main way of unit identification is lost. 
 
That's why my answer would be that probably not all the units of the army used this symbol, maybe just a few or only the Emperor's regiments. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 8/27/04 2:03 pm

**Robert Vermaat** · 08-27-2004, 04:52 PM

Quote:<hr>I owe you the image of the Geneva missorium of Valentinian III, which also shows shields with a Chi-Rho I think.<hr> 
OK, I looked it up - no Chi-Rho on the Geneva missorium ('Valentinian dish'). 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

Uwe Bahr · 08-27-2004, 04:55 PM

Hallo Vorti, Theo, 
 
the theory about the Chi-Rho-pictogramm is very interesting; here yet another painting about the same theme. It's not as good as a picture of Connolly, but I think it's quite nice, perhaps especially the late Romans like it: 
 
<img src="http://people.freenet.de/u-bahr/entfernt.bmp" style="border:0;"/> 
 
I can't give You a reference about the book, but I recall it was a purely religious one and I leaned it only because I wanted to see this picture. I had to make it smaller for the upload, if You want it in 100 % scale tell me and I send it to You by e-Mail. But I'll be off-line for about a week, so please remember me. 
 
Greets - Uwe Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 8/28/04 5:50 am

Theodosius the Great · 08-27-2004, 09:16 PM

Avete, Valerius and Uwe. 
 
The Peter Conolly painting is from a book that isn't exclusively about Rome. Yet, there are many more depictions of Romans besides the one I posted. The book also has his paintings of Assyrians, Babalonians, Greek naval battles, and more. 
 
The title is "Warfare in the Ancient World", Edited and Introduced by General Sir John Hackett, With Illustrations By Peter Connolly. 
 
The book has multiple authors. It's probably hard to find. My book was published in 1989 and it's the hard cover edition. 
 
The ISBN is : 0-8160-2459-6. 
 
Valerius, yes I see what you mean. It'd be too confusing if all the men had the same blazon. 
 
Uwe, my browser is having trouble downloading your image. Maybe you could post the direct link instead ? 
 
Good luck, you two, on finding the book. I got mines used from eBay. 
 
Valete. 
-Theo

Uwe Bahr · 08-28-2004, 03:54 AM

Theo, 
 
in order to hurt no copyright, I deleted the picture, tell me Your e-Mail-address and I'll send it to You and everybody else who wants it. 
 
Greets - Uwe Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=uwebahr>Uwe Bahr</A> at: 8/28/04 5:58 am

Theodosius the Great · 08-29-2004, 08:05 AM

Uwe, thank you ! It is a nice painting . I think it is worthy of Connolly myself. 
 
Vale. 
-Theo

John M McDermott · 09-03-2004, 08:48 PM

Back on the subject of dished shields. I just got one made by Holger Ratsdorf. It is impressive. It is more like fiberglass than plywood. It is extemely strong, many time more so than the plywood shields of other designs.

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 09-08-2004, 01:54 AM

Can anyone tell me if any of the late Roman oval shields were just curved, rather than dished? I know some were flat, but I have seen some examples of curved ones in various reenactment groups. Is this correct? Thanks for your help! Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

aitor iriarte · 09-08-2004, 04:39 AM

Lucius, 
Go to the beginning of this topic! 
 
Aitor

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 09-08-2004, 03:07 PM

What if some of us wished to make a wooden dished shield on our own, not bought? Does anyone have any suggestions about how this could be done? I would be using Luan hardwood panelling, and would like to cut it into strips, or "planks" and assemble it with glue the way the late Romans did. I assume you would need some type of concave dished form to press the wood into? What could it be? Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

**Robert Vermaat** · 09-09-2004, 08:14 AM

Quote:<hr>Can anyone tell me if any of the late Roman oval shields were just curved, rather than dished? I know some were flat, but I have seen some examples of curved ones in various reenactment groups. Is this correct? Thanks for your help! <hr> 
Hi Lucius, 
I think I know what you mean - you mean curved like a classic legionaries' shield. I find that difficult to tell or not, other than I've never seen one of those. However, I think that if you look at the surviving bosses from the period, all point to either flat or dished shields. A boss for a curved shield look considerably different from one for a flat or dished shield. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

09-09-2004, 04:06 PM

Ave, 
 
One Idea I've had for making a dished shield (haven't tried it yet) is to cut two radii from the center of the plywood with approx 1 or 1.5 inches between them, creating a gap that radiates out from the center. do this with two layers of 1/8 plywood, then glue them together with the gaps on opposite ends. if necessary, screw some sort of metal strapto the plywood to hold it together until dry, then remove. should leave a nice dish shape when finished. When I get around to trying this, I'll post my results! 
 
Vale, 
Gaius Marius Aquilus

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 09-09-2004, 06:57 PM

Ave Gaius! 
Please forgive my ignorance, but I am not sure that I'm following what you are trying to explain Can you help me out? Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

09-10-2004, 05:30 AM

Ave, 
 
Make a circle, and draw two lines from the center to the rim. at the rim they should be separated by a couple of inches. remove this area. if you then somehow draw the two edges of the cut-out area together, you should end up with a dished shape, but a ridge will be formed at the connected edges of the cut out area. by making a second layer exactly the same, but turned 180 degrees from the first, you can fasten down the edges that would form this disfiguring ridge so that they are no longer obvious. if the two layers can be clamped/ pressed/ secured well, then the ridge may not be noticeable at all. 
 
Vale, 
Gaius Marius Aquilus

**Robert Vermaat** · 09-10-2004, 01:03 PM

Quote:<hr>you then somehow draw the two edges of the cut-out area together<hr> 
Hi Gaius, 
Well, that's just it - the 'somehow' part! 
Although this would be possible when you use paper, with a layer of wood up to 9mm thick it's just not possible. 
 
if you're going to use force anyway, pushing down several thin layers of softened (wet?) wood and glueing these together until they are dry would be more practical. use industrial glue, that way the alyers will never ever come apart again. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

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