Arm Protection

[Oisin]

Hello all,

I've seen a number of depictions in pop culture of Romans wearing lorica segmentata (or segmentata-ish) shoulders over another type of cuirasse, usually a musculata. Is there any precedent in history for this, or is this just another Hollywood inaccuracy? Best depiction is in Gladiator (I know, not safe for sanity), but I've seen it other places as well (including SCA impressions), but never in a reputable source. Is this just me missing the right pictures, or is this because it's not correct?

Like this: http://mgeisler.net/images/gladiator_emperor.jpg

If so, besides the manica and any possible protective value of pteruges, what sorts of arm armour might have been used by the Roman army during different periods? I saw one reinactor's essay on the internet mentioning that he wasn't qualified to comment on leather arm protection, which would imply that this exists as well. Does it?

Thanks for the help.

[Carlton Bach]

No doubt the real experts will weigh in shortly. AFAIK (I'm not an armorer or very much into equipment studies beyond the basics), neither approach is entirely fantasy, but both are questionable. THe segmentata shoulders with other armour are based on a first-century find IIRC from Germany (Kalkriese?) and related depictions on gravestones of cavalrymen. Junkelmann discusses the combination in his book 'Die Reiter Roms' and his troop uses a combination of mail torso protection and segmentata shoulders. I have never seen musculata and segmentata shoulders anywhere outside of Hollywood, though.

Arm armour is shown in at least one of the Adamklissi metopes fropm the Dacian War era (early second century). It looks like a lamellar armour similar to objects found at Dura-Europos. Material is anyone's guess - leather (or rather rawhide) is possible, but I suspect metal. It is possible that the fabric armour arm protections used by gladiators were also in military use, but I know of no evidence pointing that way.

[M. Demetrius]

It seems reasonable to think that some kind of pad was worn under a metal manica, since metal over bone isn't the best choice for comfort or protection. It's not unreasonable to think that a pad something like the gladiator pads would be the right choice, but it's just as likely that the pad was attached to the inside of the manica. Thick wool felt, cut into segments to match the metal, with a space between them for flexibility would do the job, I think. Whatever pad might be used, it would have to be constructed in such a way as not to impede the flexibility of the armor, yet hold the metal a safe distance from the bone and soft tissue.

Just my speculative answer, though, I'm not sure about any of that. Somewhere, there was a discussion on this forum of a segmentata-like shoulder piece over hamata, but I don't remember much about that.

[Urselius]

Somewhere, there was a discussion on this forum of a segmentata-like shoulder piece over hamata, but I don't remember much about that.

There is an image unearthed at Arlon in Belgium of two mounted men apparently wearing segmentata shoulder guards with non-segmentata body armour.

[Matthew Amt]

Just to reiterate with my usual song: Always start with the assumption that EVERYTHING in a movie is WRONG, and work from there. If something accurate sneaks in by accident, rejoice. Otherwise, enjoy the show.

You probably don't really need a lot of padding under a manica, since it's mainly there to prevent slices. Sure, a heavy blow could still bruise or even break a bone, but that's better than no manica at all! I think it would be very easy for the padding to inhibit flexibility, and I *don't* think that trying to "articulate" the padding will help.

Valete,

Matthew

[Doc]

I have a manica that Matt Lukes made for me and it has a linen padding. The padding is approximately 3mm thick. It does not interfere with articulation at all. The lames of a manica are outwardly flexible enough to accomodate the arm with the padding.