How To.. wear the Pugio and Gladius (belts, fasteners)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I see Fatalis has his pugio mounted just like the one I mentioned.
I'll have to ask him how it is done. Funny how you notice these things occassionally! :lol:

[Doc]

Gentlemen,

I think that it is possible that what we conceive as a modern notion may have very well been conceived by the Romans as well. We cannot dismiss any practical theory since in the end, we are all humans and there is alot to be said on this point.

As human beings history is repeated or rehashed in one form or another. If there were four suspension rings on a scabbard, we cannot dismiss the idea that "they liked tradition so they had four but used two". But at the same time there were four rings so we cannot categorically say they did not use them all. Furthermore, just because we have have trouble using all the rings for suspension and just because we cannot visualize how they did it, we cannot say "the Romans did not do it this way and the sculpture shows this and so this is it".

Unless some of you have physcially built a time machine and have seen exactly first hand how every legionary over a period of 100 years (Only first century AD mind you) wore their weapons, ALL WE HAVE IS THEORIES.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

That is not the point. This is:

I am not saying for a moment that we have enough evidence to state categorically that this or that was not done, but if we are to avoid moving into the realm of fantasy and possible fiction we need to stick with the evidence we have and see what we can do with that.

[Magnus]

No, but we can't discount experimental archaeology or practical reenacting either. Especially when the gear used is within reasonable parameters of materials and accuracy.

[jkaler48]

Here is yet another possible Pugio/Gladius attachment method
(from Armillium website)


ugio or gladius button and loop. Brass. For belts 3 cm. wide. This price is for 2 units. Based in the method suggested by Christian Miks, "Studien zur Romischen Schwertbewaffnung in der Kaiserzeit", 2007, page 245"

[PhilusEstilius]

I can see where this is coming from John but these reconstructions have been made not exactly as that which has been put forward by Cesar on the same subject at an earlier page. In the picture Cesar has shown there is definately a clothes fastner of which I have several types, I have not read the paper on these suggestions by Dr. Christian Miks so I'd be reluctant to give any comment. However if what Cesar has put forward is the correct style of object that Miks is refering to, then it would appear that some one who has reproduced what you show is expanding on what is as yet only a theory. For what you show are studs that appear to be made up from plates with rings at the back of the belt, discs on the front with a rivet going thro' to hold them together.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

However if what Cesar has put forward is the correct style of object that Miks is refering to, then it would appear that some one who has reproduced what you show is expanding on what is as yet only a theory.

Of course, but in this case the theory is based on the artifacts:

He have based that hypothetical way of gladius suspension in a find from Vindonissa, where a gladius, a button and loop fastener and some belt pieces were found together. The button and loop were found at the back of the gladius scabbard, suggesting a close connexion between both items.

[PhilusEstilius]

Thank you so much for the info you have provided Alexander, I can now see so much clearer what John was putting up. great thank you

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

You welcome 8)
Actually, John did not offer a "yet another possible attachment method" - it is the same Cesar referred to in an earlier post.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

I was tempted to scan the picture, as Alexander has made, but i don't know it can violate the author's rights.

Another way to carry the sword is showed in the so-called Vacheres warrior.

Traditionally has been identified as a gaul warrior or auxiliar. Bur, why can't be a roman soldier?



Seems a single narrow belt with the sword tied to it firmly in an unidintified way.

[PhilusEstilius]

I just have to mention that a couple of weeks ago I found yet another Roman stud not unlike the one shown in Miks diagram, however the one I found has just a triangular piece on the back cast all in one of course. It begins to give me a new slant on just some of these fasteners that I have found over the years.

[PhilusEstilius]

When we look at the sleeves on his arms I wonder if he is a later centuries soldier and his scabbard has a slider type of attachment at the back.

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

I was tempted to scan the picture, as Alexander has made, but i don't know it can violate the author's rights.

My understanding is that reproduction of a small part of a work for educational purposes is fair use.

[PhilusEstilius]

Cesar I shall email Dr. Christian MIks for he is a very good friend of my very good friend, who knows I may be able to help you on that particular situation.

[Doc]

Alexander,

Is the picture you posted from Mik's book based on any evidence suggesting that a sword would have been suspended in the way(s) he is depicting? If there is plausible evidence for this, then it would be great.

I would really like the idea that one could use such a connection since it also shows (proves?) that all four suspension rings can be used albeit directly attached to the belt.