Helmets.

[Pict]

I apologize if this has been covered before but I'm afraid I could not find information using the search feature. I was perusing the helmet data base
and was blown away by the pictures of the Imp. Italic D and H models. The decoration is so stunning I wondered if these were special parade helmets or at least officer helmets. Does anyone have any more information ?

I had been drawn to the helmet database after watching the initial battle scene in Gladiator and wondering about the helmets the troopers were wearing. I understand from some of the postings that these were not accurate and essentially reworked English civil war roundhead's lobster pots. Prior to finding this site, I had thought the armour in that movie was fairly accurate....oh well live and learn.

One other thing I did wonder about helmets in general is what did they wear under them? In the movie, they seemed to have rags wrapped around their noggins but I recall reading or hearing somewhere that they had a felt like cap for cushioning. Could someone please illuminate me.

Many thanks all.

Cheers,
Pict

[Lupianus]

As far as I know, there's still debate, if any helmet found to this date was used exclusively for parade. I think Junkelmann (Riders like statues of ore) pointed out that there is no evidence for special parade equipment, apart from weapons. Sorry, can't look up the references here at work.

Roman soldiers tended to decorate their armour, so besides discovering an explicit inscription giving name and rank of its owner, I think it's impossible to say, if it belonged to an officer's or a trooper's possession. Roman soldiers tended to decorate their armour in most outstanding fashions. No wonder, they payed for it by their guerdon and were allowed to take some pieces with them, when released from service. The main subject here were belts, daggers and swords, but why not a helmet?

Regarding helmet caps: For sure they were in use throughout the Roman period - some authors mentioned them (think Petronius is an early example from the first century AD) and there's archeological evidence from Egypt. The 'pillbox' hats of the 3rd/4th century certainly originated from caps worn under helmets. Also, it's a good idea to pad your armour as best as you can, since you will need any protection against its pressure on marching and blows in battle.

Hope that helps a bit. Certainly some other people can be more precise.

[Arminius Primus]

Ave,

Just thought I would jump in on this one. Wearing a helmet without a padded cap underneath can be dangerous to your health,... as any blow to the helmet is transferred to your skull. The helmet would have saved you from the cutting effects of the blow but the shock force of the blow might put you out of action. Our Roman troops understood this simple fact. So what did the cap look like? At this point pretty much open to creative speculation. However, the size and shape are pretty much dictated by the helmet. Materials also offer options, leather, with padding, wool with padding, linen with padding or maybe a sheepskin glued or otherwise fastened inside the helmet. I believe that in the Netherlands some helmets were found with some organic material inside, but hard to say exactly what it was.

Other than decaying over the millenia, I have found that any military item that has any possible civilian use tends to be used up and practically disappears. As an example from much later periods,... the lack of pristine period military footwear. I would think that the the arming cap / helmet suspension fell into a similar category. Sort of a " Hey, Publius, neat cap , is it warm? " Sure is, I had one when I was with the Legion in Germany'.

Regards from the Balkans, Arminius Primus aka Al

[Matthew Amt]

Prior to finding this site, I had thought the armour in that movie was fairly accurate....oh well live and learn.

Always start a movie with the assumption that EVERYthing in it is WRONG, and go from there. Not just hardware, either. If something more or less accurate sneaks in, it's probably by accident. Don't let it ruin the movie for you...

One other thing I did wonder about helmets in general is what did they wear under them?

Helmets were definitely padded. Linen, wool, felt, horsehair, straw, grass, moss, probably almost anything. Sometimes the padding was glued in, sometimes not. Sometimes it could have been a separate cap, but the one description I know of from the first century AD translates best as "wad of rags". Variety!

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/helmint.jpg

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/helmets.html

Reading through posts here on RAT will definitely tell you a LOT, but get some books, too:

http://www.larp.com/legioxx/bibliog.html

Vale,

Matthew

[Tarbicus]

Don't forget sea sponges. They're attested to in a primary literary source (do a search on RAT). The Roman use was based on the Greek preference, apparently.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Also useful at the end of a long days march!

[jvrjenivs]

Don't forget sea sponges. They're attested to in a primary literary source (do a search on RAT). The Roman use was based on the Greek preference, apparently.

Yeah, I really recommend using a damped sponge in your helmet padding on hot days.

[Magnus]

Don't forget sea sponges. They're attested to in a primary literary source (do a search on RAT). The Roman use was based on the Greek preference, apparently.

Also good for things at the other end of the body...combined with a nice stick.

[M. Demetrius]

Once upon a time, Jim, you talked about that other use with a sea sponge. You noted it was "kind of scratchy".

Works better wet. Nuff said. :wink:

[Titvs Statilivs Castvs]

Don't forget sea sponges. They're attested to in a primary literary source (do a search on RAT). The Roman use was based on the Greek preference, apparently.

Also good for things at the other end of the body...combined with a nice stick.

Yeah, but don't change the two of them. :lol:

[PhilusEstilius]

I have held the original Cavalry Sports helmet from Trimontium in my hands at the National Museum of Scotland, this was when I was allowed to measure it prior to reproduceing it for the Trimontium Trust. The outside of this helmet is in woundefull condition, however the inside is even better and a beautifull bright yellow brass which has no evidence of any lineing at all. I am inclined to think that the cavalryman who owned it must have worn a skull cap of some sorts. I also found it interesting to note that where the high peak and neck guard are around 20 swg guage the upper area of this helmet is only about 5thou' of an inch thick, it makes one wonder just how it survived in it's day let alone having been in the ground for two millenia.

[Magnus]

I agree with you Brian...not that it's of much relevance, but I never add the padding to my helmet...I always wear a padded cap. Plus if it's cold it makes a handy hat when not in armour.