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Event marching camp reconstruction problems and solutions
#1
I not claiming any great experience having only attended a few events but
I am opening the subject up for discussion so that challenges can be discussed, solutions proposed and experiences shared.
Most event venues constrain both site selection and ground modification
making setting up a realistic camp location, fortifications and esp drainage
for rainy weather difficult. So lets hear the challenges and horror stories and see if anyone has any workable cost effective solutionS to offer!
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
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#2
Does anyone ever actually recreate a real Roman camp the way they did? Every night after a long march, the soldiers had to dig trenches and set up a fence around the camp. At least this was done in the glory days of Rome, it eventually went really slack. Tacitus writes about this.
Nowadays to create a real camp you would have to bring in a bulldozer since no reenactment club is likely to have a full sized legion able to construct such fortifications. I'd be interested in recreating the traps used against the Gauls at Alesia.Caesar was a genius. Caltrops would probably be easy to make for anyone who can work with metal. ya...
Nomen:Jared AKA "Nihon" AKA "Nihonius" AKA "Hey You"

Now with Anti-Varus protection! If your legion is lost for any reason, we will give it back! Guaranteed!

Carpe Dium
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#3
Okay, I have some experience on this subject, but still far too less to say anything that good researched. (Planning on doing more marches over the next couple of years, with a higher grade of authenticy).

I've been building a roman Wood-earth wall of permanent campment on the Kops Plateau, Nijmegen (see somewhere else) and did a trainingscamp with ditch and at one occasion on the march I did last summer we made one (it's hard to get permission to dig at farmers land)

We must note that the Roman army was a very well trained proffesional organisation with his own enginering troops and all skilled men with their own tasks. I don't believe that everyone would help to dig the ditch, but most of them did, as it's a big job. First we've to take into account that the smalle the camp we reconstruct, the longer the ditch would be (measured as a ratio between area covered/people living there versus circumference. I don't have calculations around here, but you can find about how many work has to be done by a single soldier. From my own (untrained) experience I can tell, if I remember right, that I was able to make about 1 meter of ditch in an hour. Some were able to make some more, some were only able to make less. But all were untrained for this job. So you could only make a small ditch at the front of your camp, so everyone has to dig a 'normal' amount of earth.

Second on drainage, you've to take into account that first the corpus agrimensorem entered the campside (after it was picked up by some special commanders) and start to set out the main ways of the camp layout. Soldiers start to remove trees etc (which are most probably there, if you are marching into germanic countries) and LEVELING the area. So, everything is flat. From my own experience I can tell that even in very rainy wether, when you tent is set up in hard rain, on levelled ground, simple placing a layer of straw with toplayer of sheepskin will be perfect to sleep one. If not, you could make a drainage canal in front of your tent, but I never needed one.

Then I see stationairy artillery on the picture you posted. I don't know if this is appropriate for a marching camp. As we now used to take the whole thing apart and set it up on the next locations, the Romans weren't using them that way, as far as I know. The only took the iron parts (and torsion bands) and renewwed all the wooden parsts everytime to came on a new locations where the needed one. I only would suggest to use smaller carroballistae (so mounted on a cart) in a marching camp as the big ones are simply not there.

Also, it looks like your vexillum is standing at the entrence. I think it always have to be in the middle of the camp, in a special tent devoted to the banners (and other goddes you want on your side). Always have some soldiers on watching duties outside this holy ground!
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#4
Is there evidence they only carried the metal parts?
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#5
We did some experiments some years ago.

http://www.romanhideout.com/studies/Exp ... _Field.asp

We didn't built a complete camp, but just a trench on one of the four sides according to our "forces". We were sactisfied.

Please note that we worked on it in tow days. The second day after an intense march above some hills.
During the night we had also 4 hours guarding shifts, so the second day was really intense (few sleeping hours, hard march, digging)...!
Luca Bonacina
Provincia Cisalpina - Mediolanum
www.cisalpina.net
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#6
At events where the legion or group doesn't own the land...forget digging ditch and ramparts lol. I guess the next best thing is some kind of barrier around the tents with some palisade stakes.

The closest thing here in N. America to a real camp is the fort at Lafe, Arkansas.

[Image: 100_6030.jpg]
____________________________________________________________
Magnus/Matt
Du Courage Viens La Verité

Legion: TBD
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#7
We were not allowed to trench at Castra Romana, otherwise we would have done a trench in front and around the tents and drained it off to the road. No big deal. The price of using the pretty field is that we cannot dig trenches. This is easy to do, but damages the ground. Usually when marching or at single Century events the Signum stays in my (the Centurio's) tent. Not sure for any evidence as to where it was in reality when a single Century or Two was out on the march (or if they even had a standard for under a cohort). The vexillum out front is not the "Real" Vex posted by the Centurio Tent, but one of the extras we use for events to announce who we are.As for Artillery... well, we're not leaving it at home, marching camp or not! Incidentally, the Beast worked in the wet conditions and dry. No swelling issues. Our engineer is amazing.

Now are we really gonna criticise marching camps at events? The tent stakes are modern too. How about the look of all those Brown tents? One is leather... can you tell which?


So here is the "real" Castra Romana 08 story from the Duty Centurio:

We were ordered to repair a section of an arena near Givhans. The Praefectus, always looking for an excuse to find a warm maiden or bribe a few locals went with us. Of course having a senior officer means nothing was done right (he had better ideas). The artillery pieces were towed on our oxcart by a few extra mules along with the Trispastos Crane for repair on the local arena, as we were expecting a possible uprising due to taxes levied to pay for the arena and would not have time to fell trees for the timber. As the mules marched with us it seems appropriate to set them up near the tax table to keep the local taxpayers honest and to cover the trispastos operator and repair of the arena. The Praefect would not allow us to build the marching camp rampart against my strong protest as he feared it would upset the local magistrates with whom he was fostering good relations (as we were encamped in their town "meeting area"... which looked suspiciously like a drill field for Celtic militia to me!). We posted Artillery and extra guards as a precaution, along with a number of standards so there would be no Celtic "confusion" as to who we were (it had happened before). During the night a gentle rain was enjoyed by all, until Celtic traitors diverted a nearby ocean and flooded the camp in several inches of water. Doing their duty, the soldiers watched as their shields floated by. The guard detail, looking like Roman Marines, shortly returned with prisoners captured just after the flood began (the prisoners had obviously been abused by the guard detail, and I awarded them for it.). The Celts, terrified of the horrific thuderstorm that had by now developed, spawned by Mars himself, had surrenderred to the weather itself in what can only be termed an incredible display of cowardice. They were sentenced by the prefect to die in the arena, which we had now repaired. Our wet tunics were rewarded with the sight of Barbarian blood, though true to their weak upbringing the fights were somewhat pathetic. Local Roman Gladiators bested them all. After a few hours drying out, we returned with our taxes, and a bit more besides... enough to cover an incredible feast prepared by our own Roman Ladies, who had thoughtfully followed us with several ox carts of their own... although the prefect had disappearred to "pick up another beautiful maiden" from the Airus Portus... Alas, I fear that the arena will need repair next year as well... at least the Prefect says it will. My duty is but to serve.

For Rome,

Justus Rustius Longinus
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#8
We use re-bar posts and rope to mark out the boundaries of out areas.....
very authentic.... :lol:

You have to meet certain HSE criteria too, which has me wondering
why we cannot place the triple pilas muras on top of the embackment, yet we have them set up on level ground in the camp, which has the points conveniently at 5 year old face level, as well as the row of doubles outside the ditch which is also at infant face level.... Confusedhock: :evil:

Some people should just not be allowed to get involved in making rules if they have no common sense.... :roll:
Visne partem mei capere? Comminus agamus! * Me semper rogo, Quid faceret Iulius Caesar? * Confidence is a good thing! Overconfidence is too much of a good thing.
[b]Legio XIIII GMV. (Q. Magivs)RMRS Remember Atuatuca! Vengence will be ours!
Titus Flavius Germanus
Batavian Coh I
Byron Angel
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#9
I don't want to be offended to anyone, but was just showing my experience and opinion. Of course artillery is great, but this topic was about doing a realistic marching camp. When we don marching camp at the event I organise only the small Xanten catapult is in the marching camp. All the bigger equipment is on the demonstration field.

I will also add that I used canvas tents on my previous march, and in an upcomming writing on that project, I even offend myself that we used those instead of proper period tenting. I really don't mind wich camp it was. It seems to be yours, but if it was one set up by one of the groups I work with, I would have told exactly the same.
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#10
Quote:We did some experiments some years ago.
I read the article, and it's an impressive work. Did anyone take any pictures of the construction?
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#11
yes of course, but unfortunately some strong copyright issues raged on between the three partecipants groups.

The only images authorized are included into the official journal called "Vexillum". You can download it from here:

http://cid-47c43dda08fee76c.skydrive.li ... xillum.pdf
Luca Bonacina
Provincia Cisalpina - Mediolanum
www.cisalpina.net
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#12
Here 3 pics of the Legio XV PR trainingscamp I took part in earliers this year.

[Image: 20080419_02.jpg]

[Image: 20080419_04.jpg]

[Image: 20080419_09.jpg]
________________________________________
Jvrjenivs Peregrinvs Magnvs / FEBRVARIVS
A.K.A. Jurjen Draaisma
CORBVLO and Fectio
ALA I BATAVORUM
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#13
Sorry for the legal scuffle. It's everybody's loss when that sort of thing happens, imho.
M. Demetrius Abicio
(David Wills)

Saepe veritas est dura.
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#14
So the questions I have are for when you cannot dig:

What methods can be used that are period possible to keep the inside
of your tents dry?
A wood floor covered by canvas?
Set the tents on several brought in sod layers?
(If setting up multiple years in the same location this might eventually
produce a slightly raised and well drained area for the camp)

How can you display for the public how the camp fortifications should really
look?
1. A large painting/poster on wood?
2. A wall section that you transpost in on a trailer?
3. Buying a load of sod and building a temporary wall section above ground?

What has been tried and what is practical given time manpower and money constraints?
John Kaler MSG, USA Retired
Member Legio V (Tenn, USA)
Staff Member Ludus Militus https://www.facebook.com/groups/671041919589478/
Owner Vicus and Village: https://www.facebook.com/groups/361968853851510/
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#15
A wooden model of scale 1/1000? Smile
Valete,
Titvs Statilivs Castvs - Sander Van Daele
LEG XI CPF
COH VII RAET EQ (part of LEG XI CPF)

MA in History
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