An absolute beginner.

[Rotvndvs]

Salve!

Thanks for having me here at RAT. I've been lurking for a couple months, but here I am, all registered and everything.

I'm out of Madison, Wisconsin in the USA and I've connected with members of the XIIII out of the Chicagoland area. I've gathered a few friends into a little contubernium and we're awfully excited to get more involved.

Now, for my questions, which I'm sure have been asked a bunch of times.

1. While RAT seems to be a great community, I'm curious why there doesn't seem to be any sort of national (or even global) re-creation organization. I notice there's a XIIII out of Oregon, and another in Scotland (if people's signatures are to be believed). It seems like a parent organization would be handy to help each group have a unique identity, rather than have dozens of groups all claim to represent the same legion.

Also, while the Legio XX seems to have some of the highest standards for recreationists-- their site is cited by just about everyone-- their standards are different from many other Legions. I don't know if it's taboo to talk about a national organization, much like SCA or NERO or one of the other "combat" groups.

2. Has anyone had any experience with the India Overseas Trading Company (IOTC)? I've been exchanging emails with them since August, nailing down the specs on helmets and hamata. Here's what we're looking at:

[size=134:ndmh4s0b]Lorica Hamata, 6mm ID, riveted/punched rings, buckled doubler[/size]


[size=134:ndmh4s0b]Helmet[/size]


3. What is the best way to go about choosing accurate names? I get praenomen (there are only about 20), and cognomen (hundreds of possible "nicknames"), but the nomen itself-- the gens name-- baffles me. It feels like there must be an encyclopedia out there with information about what these families were actually like.

Right now, I'm leaning towards Caius SOMETHING Rotundus, since I like the sound of Caius (also close-ish to Chris), and Rotundus because my mother's Italian ancestry was Rotondo.

Any help on a nomen would be great.

4. Finally, though I have lots of other questions, I will just ask about a few pronunciations. I have heard people stumble over these and I really would like to try to not sound like an idiot when I talk.
Scutum: skoo-tum? scuh-tum? skoo-toom?
Pilum: pih-lum? pie-lum?
Pugio: poo-jee-oh? poo-gee-oh?

If there's not a pronunciation guide someplace, maybe creating one for this section of the forum would be helpful. I know it would help me, anyway.

Thanks much. I look forward to being a more active part of this community.

[Robert Vermaat]

A very good way to sart Chris! I wished all I our newbies were like you.

I'll try to give a fast answer to at least some of your questions.

1. Well, some of the groups surely work together, but apparently Roman re-enactment seems to work better if cooperation is voluntary. Many groups have worked their way from nothing to a highly regarded standard, and they are rightly loath to give that up. As you have seen, standards can difffer, and since no-one actually knows what went on 2000 years ago, standards should differ.
Also, you should not forget that there are a great number of people who are working on the same topics and questions without being interested in re-enactment. So ffar a place like this seems to be a common meeting ground, without the need of a global organisation.

2. So far I don't recall having heard of them.

3. You've chosen Rotundus because it's a family name. Then that should be your 'gens' name then, right? You're Gaius of the Rotundus clan. A nickname could be just about anything. Gaius Rotundus something.


4. Scutum: skuu-tum
Pilum: pie-lum
Pugio: poo-gee-oh

Pronounciation guide? Great idea!

[Rotvndvs]

Thanks for the encouragement, Robert! Glad to be here!

On the nomen issue, I was under the impression that there were only about 150 recognized nomen? The reason I was going to use Rotundus as my cognomen was that I didn't think it was viable as a nomen, but I wanted to give a nod to my mom's family, so I thought I'd sneak it in as a nickname (meaning "the round").

Am I off base on this?

[M. Demetrius]

Good job, Chris! You didn't buy a Trooper helmet first! You're in a select minority of reenactors.

If you pronounce the Latin as if it were Italian, you'll be pretty close most of the time. Exceptions to that:
C is always like K.
V is like a U, except when at the start of a word and followed by a vowel. Then it's like a W.
AE is pronounced like an long I in English
OE is pronounced like OY.
AU is more like OW than AW.

Typically (but not always) the accent is on the first syllable in two syllable words, and the third from the end in three and more. Like this:
Pilum PEE lum.
Julius YOO lee us.
AugustusOW goos toos (not ow GOOS toos).
Vesuvius weh SOO wee oos.

That's not even a scratch in the book of Latin grammar, but it should be a start.

And a Laus point for YOUR start. Good job.

[Rotvndvs]

Good job, Chris! You didn't buy a Trooper helmet first! You're in a select minority of reenactors.

Thanks! The "trooper helmet" problem was one of the first things I learned after a few google searches.

Pilum PEE lum.

Pilum: pie-lum

Gah! :wink: Okay, once I get my feet under me, I may take point on a pronunciation guide. We have a really good languages department here at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, so maybe I can make contact with a latin professor.

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi Chris,

My pleasure.

On the nomen issue, I was under the impression that there were only about 150 recognized nomen? The reason I was going to use Rotundus as my cognomen was that I didn't think it was viable as a nomen, but I wanted to give a nod to my mom's family, so I thought I'd sneak it in as a nickname (meaning "the round").
Am I off base on this?

Rotundus is OK as a nickname (I know a gladiator with that name.. :wink: ) but you can easily use it as a gens name. Sure, we know a number of such names, but as a historian I do not suffer from the impression that we could posssibly know all names.

See? There's another reason for differences, the discussion (I'm not going there!) about what we can use and what we can't.

[Marcus]

I guess my real first name will suffice just fine then! Looks like I need to change the u to a v though. As a fellow newbie I will definitely second the idea for a pronunciation guide.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Rotundus, why would you not believe the contents of anyones signature? :o

[Rotvndvs]

Well, I certainly would never call yours into question, my liege. It could get me crucified! :wink:

I talked to a professor at UWM, and though he's hip-deep in midterm prep before the winter break, he'd be willing to sit with me to talk about ancient Latin pronunciation in the new year.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Good luck with that, at least you have people around to help!
I found it a bit odd trying to get my head around the W instead of V etc

But still, I run around putting my foot in my mouth regularly....
Like if it is Wegetius instead of Vegetius, is it Wetruwius instead of Vetruvius? :?

[Rotvndvs]

But still, I run around putting my foot in my mouth regularly....
Like if it is Wegetius instead of Vegetius, is it Wetruwius instead of Vetruvius? :?

I just like the fact that if they carved it on a wall, Vesuvius would read VESVVIVS. Try saying "vesvvivs" five times fast :wink:

[Robert Vermaat]

But still, I run around putting my foot in my mouth regularly....
Like if it is Wegetius instead of Vegetius, is it Wetruwius instead of Vetruvius? :?

I just like the fact that if they carved it on a wall, Vesuvius would read VESVVIVS. Try saying "vesvvivs" five times fast :wink:

I heard that by that time one wouldd no longer pronounce the -us ending.

Wegetio
Wetroowio
Wesoovio or Wesoowio