Check These oot, Min! New helmets from E. Konig!!

[PhilusEstilius]

I think you may be correct in a way Paolo, but what strikes me as a little strange is that a craftsman with such a reputation that Konig has would indeed have gone for the correct info from Lindenschmit.

[Marcus Mummius]

If I recall corectly Ira Konig, Erik's wife worked as a conservator at the Roman museum at Mainz. Perhaps she found out some things that weren't published yet?

Vale,

[PhilusEstilius]

I think that I can assure you Jef she did not, however if she did work there why did she not consult the work of Lindenschmit.

[Marcus Mummius]

I read on her website she did her apprenticeship at the RGMZ at Mainz. And she worked for the museum of Trier after that.

I have another question about the Gallic D, I see that you did not put side plume holders on your version but I see them in most other versions.

Do you know where I could find the writings of Lindenschmit?

vale,

[PhilusEstilius]

I have to agree with you Jim the jazzed up Deepeeka done by Adrian is very good, however one can only get away with that where the eyebrows and peek are a match, The peek that Konig has done is not the correct one for it should have copper and brass chevrons all going the same way from end to end. Indeed also the peek done by Joe Piela is not correct either for he has shown the chevrons to go left and right from the centre. I'm afraid I can't help anyone about how the "D" peek inlay is done yet as I've not written up and published on that yet, besides which I would also like to do my own ideas about the WEISENAU 369 to add to the work of Lindenschmit.

[PhilusEstilius]

I think if you go via the Mianz museum you may find the info on this helmet, the answer on side plumes is that it did not have any.

[Marcus Mummius]

the answer on side plumes is that it did not have any.

That's interesting to hear. Perhaps elements from different Gallic D helmets, including the Weisenau 369 helmet got mixed up when replica's where made?

This copy of a Gallic D, picture from the RAT Helmet Database, is often used as a model for the Weisenau 369, but it isn't the same helmet:

Vale,

[PhilusEstilius]

I think a lot of confusion comes out of how Robinson decided to list helmets some time ago with his order of A - Z I know there are style variations in helmets where one might say OK these appear to be of the same period, but it can also be difficult to use names as well for mostly names refer to where some thing was found. I even get confused when I hear people talk about a Fulham type of sword, there is only one Fulham sword as found at Fulham on the Thames river but it's no other than a Mainz type sword.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Yes, a mainz defined by it's find location is still a Mainz.

But a variation in the helmet should not be crticized out of hand really, as
it would be a bummer to show up with your bling, only to be running around looking like clone troopers! wink:

Changing subject to the C, I can't help worry that the ears would
be the prime target for the long sword wielding woolly buggers we would face while conquering Gaul!
But the Cheek pieces are my favourite for 'Gallic' helm style.

[Peroni]

I have to agree with Brian. If you are going to make a replica and take the pains to raise it from one piece, why not make it as per the find/report rather than make noticeable 'amendments'.

I was floored when I first saw the photos of Brian's reconstruction - simply stunning.

This copy of a Gallic D, picture from the RAT Helmet Database, is often used as a model for the Weisenau 369, but it isn't the same helmet:

This Gallic D helmet (using HRR eyebrow classification) is a copy of a helmet from the cemetary at Verdun in Slovenia. (A Gallic type E was also found there and associated finds suggest auxiliary use)

Changing subject to the C, I can't help worry that the ears would
be the prime target for the long sword wielding woolly buggers we would face while conquering Gaul!

none of the seven Gallic A's I'm aware of ever had them, nor the helmet HRR classified as a Gallic B. :wink:

I'm certain that your 'woolly buggers' would be aiming for more vital parts of you than your ears Byron! Ears are never a 'kill'! They do however make nice necklaces!!! :twisted:

[PhilusEstilius]

I have to agree with you on the "C" Byron one would tend to think how about my ears, but then in the heat of battle with all the shouting and cut and thrust going on are those Wooly beggers going to notice that you don't have ear guards. Then again we have to ask ourselves just when did the flanged cheekplates come into being, and was the thought that these things are great for they deflect sword blows down onto your shoulder doublings and save the ears I don't know worth a thought or two.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Changing subject to the C, I can't help worry that the ears would
be the prime target for the long sword wielding woolly buggers we would face while conquering Gaul!

none of the seven Gallic A's I'm aware of ever had them, nor the helmet HRR classified as a Gallic B. :wink:

twisted:

What!! You saying they never had ears!!

I am just going by the description of how the afore mentioned Gauls (woolly buggers) wielded their swords, which makes me think of over head chopping,,,hence ears getting sliced off as the sword scrapes down the side of your helmet....should they be lucky enough to get that blow in.... :wink:

I agree too that to make a repro of a helmet it is better to make it to the best of the knowledge available to you..but then also cannot help feel that 'well at least there will be some variation to them'....


I imagine if you were to specify the desire to have the helmet follow the lines of Brians masterpiece, he would probably do it that way too.....

The thing is, no two would have been the same back then, so while I would love to be the proud owner of Brians (Docs) helmet, I also would
not want too many other people running about in an exact copy....then and now! But regardless, I too was wondering about the guard, but am still dribbling about these new helmets!

I wonder why the Batavian dumped it over board....hmmmmm :?

[Marcus Mummius]

This Gallic D helmet (using HRR eyebrow classification) is a copy of a helmet from the cemetary at Verdun in Slovenia. (A Gallic type E was also found there and associated finds suggest auxiliary use)

Thanks for that info.

Too bad the browguard isn't present. I'd be interesting too see if it had inlay too. Also too bad the rosettes are missing.

Does anyone know is the Gallic D from Verdun had side plume holders?

Vale,

[Peroni]

Does anyone know is the Gallic D from Verdun had side plume holders?

No, It didn't Jef. The hole seen on the side of the bowl is the brow guard attachment point. The only Wiesenau 'Gallic' types with side plumes are the 'F' from Besançon, and the 'I' types from Mainz, Budapest and ex Axel Guttmann collection. The Gallic 'A' type from Eich has holes on the browguard which could have been used for side plumes.

Here's a picture with some of the associated finds. See the shield parts..flat grip bar and round conical umbo.

[PhilusEstilius]

I think Adrian that when one looks close at the pic you have put up of the "C" Jef said to bad the rossetes are missing but did it have rossetes I wonder. For we get a good look at the cheekplate and the neckguard and to my eyes it looks like there are cup holders for inlays but not a lot of evidence that rossetes were ever there. I just wonder if we can have another style of decoration here.