When did the Romans stop being "Roman"

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Check my birth certificate. :wink:

Besides, when you speak to me, do I sound like a N'Zelnda (for something a bit closer to the local pronuciation).

Crispvs

What!!!! You takin the mikey out of my NuuYoik accent then? hock: :twisted:

:lol: :lol:

No, I just thought it was a product of your upbringing in Brum...and your Uni education etc....

[john m roberts]

For me the Romans were truly "Roman" as long as they conceived themselves to be the natural lords of the Earth, superior to all others in valor, piety and dignity, with an innate capacity to govern other peoples better than those peoples could govern themselves. During this time they were willing to absorb others, but they were intolerant of the very existence of a rival power any closer than, say, China. Once Carthage, their last rival in the west, had been destroyed, they enjoyed this happy status for several centuries. Those pesky Parthians were at least not expanding westwards, and while the Romans admired Greek art and culture, it never occurred to them that they should not govern the Greeks, who were political imbeciles.

To use the American analogy again, the US became a superpower in 1945, when the rest of the world lay shattered and prostrate in the aftermath of WWII. In time the Soviet Union became a rival, but only militarily, not politically or commercially, and it was never the fearsome power the military-industrial complex made it out to be. That is all changed now. What is happening now is what Fareed Zakaria has called "the rise of the rest," i.e., America is not in decline, but other nations are becoming wealthy and powerful as we enter the "post-American era."

I think the Romans lost their "Romanness" when they stopped believing that they were the sole power on the Earth and they had to accept the existence of rivals. Like the Spartans after Leuctra, their own national myth had been broken and could not be restored.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

, and while the Romans admired Greek art and culture, it never occurred to them that they should not govern the Greeks, who were political imbeciles.

.

Hmmmm, a bit strong there!

But the rest of what you say makes sense.... :wink:

[john m roberts]

I mean the Romans themselves considered the Greeks to be political imbeciles, not me!

[Robert Vermaat]

Hi guys, I've split off the discussion about Bede being English or not to the OT section, not because it was inappropriate or something, but because it seriously veered off topic, plus I think it's an interesting discussion that deserves it's own thread, preferably in a 'less policed' arena. :wink: