Wearing of belts

[Doc]

At what point in the first century AD did the wearing of the twin belt "cowboy" style get phased out and the single belt with baldric come in.

[Peroni]

I don't think there was a definite 'cut-off' date for the wearing of two belts (probably personal preference was a factor to consider) but if you have a look at the soldier's tombstones in the imagebase (particularly the ones from the Rhineland) and the dating given - this will give you a rough idea.

[Matthew Amt]

This is really keeping you awake at night, ain't it? (Just razzin' ya!) Unfortunately it sounds like the evidence is all a little vague. I don't think you need to worry too much about the one mysterious person who said the Herculaneum belts were too wide to wear together--I'm pretty sure some folks have done that successfully.

Good luck with the research! Let us know what you find out.

Matthew

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I don't think you need to worry too much about the one mysterious person who said the Herculaneum belts were too wide to wear together--I'm pretty sure some folks have done that successfully.



Matthew

Well, he cetainly gets around, whoever he is...I'm sure I've met him several times... :? lol:

[Cacaius]

Hello

What about wearing two belts in "cowboys style" on segmentata then ?

Is it not the change in wearing belts that was caused by the new type of armour - lorica segmentata ?

Wearing in old style on hamata is not a problem, but on segmentata "cowboy style" dont work in my opinion, since segmentata is not so flexible = steel sheets.

Am I right ?

It looks like segmentata needs to be pressed by the strong belt worn horizontally.
In my opinion it also caused that new type of belt appeared .. instead of made of rectangular cast and not very high pieces .. it changed to high square repoussed pieces.

It looks like those two advantages came together .. segmentata and new type belt .. and of course new type of wearing belts.

Am I right ?

[M. CVRIVS ALEXANDER]

The introduction of the segmented armor would hardly affect the number of belts worn with the hamata, would it?

[Peroni]

As pointed out earlier, the Rhineland tombstones nearly all show the wearing of two belts. These are dated to at least mid first Century.

The introduction of the Augustan segmented armour obviously did not have much effect!

I believe it was another fashion swing rather than a practicality issue.

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Problem of wearing two belts with segmentata is that probably we don'nt made the belts and segmentatae exactly as roman does.

Probably roman belts were more flexible, being made usually of two layers of goat leather, not one side of thick cow leather as our belts. More flexible means that probably have more "grip" over an iron surface.

And the thickness of the segmentata plates in that zone was about 0,7 mm, with an unhardened iron. Actual segmentata plates use to be 1 mm or more, and made in steel, hardened by the rolling mills.

And, when you wear two belts without belt the "cowboy" looking it's more evident than wen use it with armour. You have to tighten the belt more to help to suport the weight of armour, and then the belt looks more horizontal.

[Crispvs]

Also bear in mind that two belts worn together do not have to be worn 'cowboy' style, as demonstrated by this gentleman from Cologne:

http://www.romanarmy.com/cms/component/ ... Itemid,94/

Crispvs

[Marcus Mummius]

I've worn two wide belts on a hamata without any problems :wink:

[Crispvs]

I wouldn't be surprised to find that it might even be possible to wear two belts with a segmentata if they were both worn horizontally, particulary if they were narrower belts with type 'A' plates.

Crispvs

[PhilusEstilius]

Please explain just what are type A plates

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Type A plates are the decorated with niello engraving and narrow. Type B plates are the decorated with cercles embossed. If i'm not wrong is the typlogy made here: Grew, Francis; Griffiths, Nick. 'The Pre-Flavian Military Belt : the Evidence from Britain'. Archaeologia, 109 (1991), 47-84.

The last events i have used two belts (type A plates) without problem, as Mummius points: as you can see there are tightneed and seems very horizontal:

[Crispvs]

"If i'm not wrong "

You are absolutely right my friend. By the way, I see you are wearing mail. What happened to your beautiful squamata?

Crispvs

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

Nothing! I have don't have so many material as Byron... :lol: but i have some kinds of armour, belts and helmets, and so, i have to make some "rotation" to can wear all of them. When i don't wear some piece of equipment, some comrade of Germanica do.