greek poleis

[Quintus Aurelius Lepidus]

is there a book/internetsource which lists all greek city states?

tnx!

[Kineas]

That's a tall order--all the city states in Greece proper? Ionia? Asia? Magna Graeca? Sicily? They were all "Greek."

[martinsn]

There is i fact such a book:
[url:ib547l6a]http://www.amazon.com/Inventory-Archaic-Classical-Poleis-Investigation/dp/0198140991/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1225890943&sr=8-1[/url]

It's an inventory of all known Greek poleis in the archaic and classical period and it covers all parts of the Greek world. It is not cheap, but I bought it and used it, and I think it's very good.
I don't know any internetsources that are as comprehensive.

[PMBardunias]

It's an inventory of all known Greek poleis

Does it include the Perioic communities in Laconia and Thessaly?

[Giannis K. Hoplite]

But these were not city states,were thay? And I doubt they have been discovered. Paul,do you remembered any being mentioned by name in Laconia? Amyclae?
Khaire
Giannis

[martinsn]

It's an inventory of all known Greek poleis

Does it include the Perioic communities in Laconia and Thessaly?

If the community is mentioned as a polis in the ancient scources, it should be included.
I don't know much about either Laconia or Thessaly but an example of a laconian settlement mentioned is Sellasia. It is said to be in the Lakonike and it may have had Perioikic status according to the book (based on Diodorus Siculus 15.64.1). Is that what you ment?

[Kineas]

Nifty!

I think I need a copy!

[Quintus Aurelius Lepidus]

tnx!

[PMBardunias]

I can't name them off the top of my head, but we know many perioic "towns." There are a number that sway back and forth between control by Sparta and Argos up in the NE and there is a large group which is broken away from Spartan rule under the Romans to form, and I can't recall the name in greek, a league of free laconian cities.

Sellasia would be an example of a community, but when to call something a town and when it achieves the status of Polis I'm not sure. By the end of the 5th c the concept of polis is rapidly becoming obsolete in any case.

I know next to nothing about the Thessalian perioic communities, other than they produced peltasts.

[Sean Manning]

I can't name them off the top of my head, but we know many perioic "towns." There are a number that sway back and forth between control by Sparta and Argos up in the NE and there is a large group which is broken away from Spartan rule under the Romans to form, and I can't recall the name in greek, a league of free laconian cities.

Sellasia would be an example of a community, but when to call something a town and when it achieves the status of Polis I'm not sure. By the end of the 5th c the concept of polis is rapidly becoming obsolete in any case.

I know next to nothing about the Thessalian perioic communities, other than they produced peltasts.

I expect that Hellenistic historians would have a problem with that! Poleis survived and remained important at least into the Roman conquest and arguably well beyond that, from what I've read.

[hoplite14gr]

Polis was an entity comprised by many settlements - towns.

Example:

Athens - (Marathon, Vravron, Laurio, Alvpeki) The inhabitants of these places considered themselves Athenians

Sparta - (Faris, Geronthreai ,Pylos Elos, Gythio, Pellan Therapne ) - Homioi with kleros in these areas considered themselves Lakedemonians(Spartans)

Koritnthos (Lecheo, Keghreai Myrina) The inhabitants of these places considered themselves Korinthians

Megara (Tripodiskos, Nissa) The inhabitants of these places considered themselves Megareans


Kind regards

[PMBardunias]

I expect that Hellenistic historians would have a problem with that! Poleis survived and remained important at least into the Roman conquest and arguably well beyond that, from what I've read.

We see the polis as functional political and military unit being eroded by the rise of leagues- the Peloponnesean, Delian, Boeotian, and many others.

In hellenistic times most of the old Poleis within Greece are joined into leagues such as the powerful Achean and Aetolian. That is not to say that the old polis dissapeared, only that they as an independant force were largely irrelevent. The exceptions were Sparta, who always was something of a league unto itself or perhaps a mini-empire, and Athens whose naval and commercial power made it less centralized and insular than the average polis.

[hoplite14gr]

Hmmm...

The Athens exmpla can be projecte to Corinthos too and the Sparta exmple to the Beotian Comonwealth (Koinon ton Voioton).

Interesting thought.


Kind regards

[PMBardunias]

Polis was an entity comprised by many settlements - towns.

This process is termed synoecism.

[Paralus]

Sellasia would be an example of a community, but when to call something a town and when it achieves the status of Polis I'm not sure. By the end of the 5th c the concept of polis is rapidly becoming obsolete in any case.

I expect that Hellenistic historians would have a problem with that! Poleis survived and remained important at least into the Roman conquest and arguably well beyond that, from what I've read.

And, Sean Manning, you’d be right. It is often assumed that the Macedonian conquest reduced the Greek poleis to insignificance. This is not true. Not is the oft repeated mantra that citizens of the poleis no longer took an interest in the affairs of the state. The evidence most often adduced to support this is the use of mercenaries by poleis to fight their wars. By this definition Philip II’s Macedonia was as obsolete as the poleis it ended up defeating.

The truth is that by the mid fourth century over a century and a half of internecine warfare had seen the rise of an entire class of soldier for hire. All states used them from the fifth century on and in increasing numbers. The citizenry of Athens, for example, might well have been happier to make a drachma and hire the odd condottiere and his forces than “suit upâ€