Recontruction of Belt from Herculaneum and Pompeii in 79 AD.

[Tarbicus]

I'm with Brian on this. I can't see any "big pugio/little Mainz" between the Herculaneum frogs in this photo: http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/4161 ... fn4ke2.jpg

The big problem here is the finds haven't been flippin' published yet, after twenty years. :evil:

[PhilusEstilius]

I am aware of the soldier at Pompeii and having read the account by the younger Pliny of how his uncle being commander of the fleet made rescue attempts. This may well be the reason for the soldier being there in the first place, Pliny the elder went off to rescue his personal friend at a Villa stayed overnight that caused his death. There may have been many soldiers who went to the Cities however things were in such a state that these poor guys died also.

[PhilusEstilius]

That would appear to be the major problem with all of this Jim, all we are doing here is trying to make deductions from pitures.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Any hoo, The belt could be worn with either a pompeiensis or a mainz
given the time period I would say. Unless of course you are depicting this soldier exactly!

Byron, I know that you can go 25 years back from something given the extent to which a legionary served so if the belt was made at the beginning of his service, then it would be around 50 AD. However, I believe that a "pompeii" gladius was found on this man not a Mainz style. So I do not know how "correct" it would be to put a Mainz gladius there. I think that the pompeii gladius appearing on this belt gives some idea as to the dating; later first century. However, if the pompeii gladius was used during the reign of Claudius then it would be reasonable.

And, as it says it is a Reconstruction based on the two seperate finds, there is no reason not to call it an officers belt... 8)

The more this gets discussed, the more this is becoming a must have item......

[LUCIUS ALFENUS AVITIANUS]

More confussion............ :roll: :roll: :roll:

I have read the article of Künzl about the belt plates form Herculaeneum and Pompeii, and there are the beautiful ones posted, but not the herculaneum soldiers ones. The reason is the article is dated in 1977 and the soldier's find in 1982.

The belt plates founded before were of silver, not silvered bronze. So probably Erich's belt was inspired in that belt, not in the Herculaneum ones.

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

There ya' go then! :wink:

[PhilusEstilius]

It's like I said earlier how about some archaeologist doing some write up instead of sending all this gear around the world and helping to create all this confusion. For it looks like it has all gone over and now we find there are other plates that don't relate to this soldier at all.

[PhilusEstilius]

Infact we also keep hearing Herculanium and Pompeii let's get it sorted out was it one place or was it the other.

[Rado]

My silver belt buckle from Tekije.From what I saw these two buckles (from Tekije, Herculaneum and Pompeii ) are very similar. But unfortunately I do not have enough scientific material for the Herculaneum and Pompeii model.

[Gaius Colletti]

I am aware of the soldier at Pompeii and having read the account by the younger Pliny of how his uncle being commander of the fleet made rescue attempts. This may well be the reason for the soldier being there in the first place, Pliny the elder went off to rescue his personal friend at a Villa stayed overnight that caused his death. There may have been many soldiers who went to the Cities however things were in such a state that these poor guys died also.

Actually I do not believe that the Herculaneum soldier was from Pliny the Elder's fleet, as I want to say Pliny did not go to Herculaneum. Because of how the ash/wind was when Pliny the Elder set sail, he actually passed Herculaneum as it appeared (at the time) that Herculaneum was going to be spared from Vesuvius

[PhilusEstilius]

Matt.

That may well be right what you say about Pliny the Elder not going to Herculaneum, however with all due respect I make reference only the soldier from Pompeii where I mention rescue attempts and his possible reason for being there.

[Crispvs]

I don't think it has ever been established that a soldier's body was found in Pompeii, despite the appearance of one in a well known nineteenth century painting. There were certainly swords found in Pompeii but no soldiers that I know of. The soldier being discussed in this thread is the soldier/marine found on the beach at Herculaneum, found in 1982 and reconstructed in a National Geographic magazine in 1984.

Crispvs

[Gaius Colletti]

Matt.

That may well be right what you say about Pliny the Elder not going to Herculaneum, however with all due respect I make reference only the soldier from Pompeii where I mention rescue attempts and his possible reason for being there.

My misunderstanding, I did not mean to impose, I was just stating that from the accounts I have read that Pliny the Elder actually passed by Herculaneum, as at the time, the city appeared to be safe from the eruption.

[Graham Sumner]

Hi

There is also an article on the Herculaneum soldier/marine by Raffaele D'Amato published in Ancient Warfare magazine. Perhaps Jasper would be kind enough to supply a link.

The article includes pictures of the belt finds and a reconstruction painting by me based on D'Amato's research of the character himself.

Graham.

[Rado]

Can anyone give a clear image of the application of the scabbard Herculaneum and Pompeii find? Thanks in advance.