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12-20-2003, 11:58 AM

About those Imperial-Smurf helmets.. 
I remember two things: first Dio's mention of the creation by Caracalla of a "macedonian phalanx" equipped with rawhide helmets. These could be it. They would fit the "macedonian look". 
Granted, Caracalla came to power after Septimus but I wonder when Septimus' arch was erected. Besides, that wouldn't be the first time a monarch picks up the previous monarch's ideas and makes them his own. The more so when the monarch in question is the son of the previous one. 
Dio describes the creation of this phalanx as one of Caracalla's whims. 
I rather see there the end result of a long, hard look at the tactical abilities of the "old style" legions. I also suspect that the Persians were the ones exclusively destined to be at the receiving end of this "new model army". After all Septimus' expeditions in Persia were not all successful and scores needed to be settled.. 
The second thing I found in FeugÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¨re's "Casques antiques", pp.112/113: 
 
"Other examples which can be classified among this type (Guisborough) due to the use of bronze and the presence of cheek-guards are however clearly set apart from the type described above." 
"Thus, a helmet from the military necropolis at Ostrov (Romania), dated from the middle of the IInd C.A.D. shows a high ogival profile topped with a ridge (crest?)" 
 
HUH?? Does anybody knows what FeugÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¨re is talking about there? 
PS: I finally managed to change the color of the fonts... I am very proud.. I don't need much to be proud.. Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://localhost:1094/Homesteads/_1750094854/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 12/20/03 1:21 pm

NightHunter24 · 12-20-2003, 09:23 PM

So the categorization of 'smurf-helm' for the 'phrygian-type that is being disscussed has stuck I see. 
 
Galea Smurfata ( sorry it's corny I know but couldn't resist )

Crispvs · 12-21-2003, 02:03 AM

It occurs to me that the Phrygian (or 'Smurf') type of helmet being discussed is quite similar to a number of images of Germanic and Dacian helmets from the preceding two centuries. The Osprey 'Rome's Enemies: Germans and Dacians' has a drawing which collects a number of these images together. I know that this is not the most scholarly of sources but at least it's good for comparison. I have seen a copy of this particular drawing online recently but cannot remember where unfortunately. 
Is it not possible that in the same way that units recruited in the East probably wore Eastern style helmets, units recruited in the part of Germania closest to Dacia might have worn helmets more traditional for their area of origin, which may ultimately have been derived from helenistic Greek originals such as the helmet from Vergina tomb III? This could be supported by Tacitus' statement that auxiliaries were armed and equipped in their native manner. Perhaps some of Septimius Severus' "barbaric" soldiers wore helmets like these and were seen by the artists who designed the decoration of the arch of Septimius Severus. 
 
Just a thought. 
 
Crispvs

**Robert Vermaat** · 12-21-2003, 09:27 AM

Did the Roman army wear non-Roman helmets? Were the soldiers free to wear what they wanted? or are the, as I think, non-Romans serving in the Roman army, being distinguished by their 'barbarian' helmets? 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

**Robert Vermaat** · 12-30-2003, 07:36 PM

<img src="http://www.fectio.org.uk/paradehelmet.jpg" style="border:0;"/> 
OK, no smurf-helm, but how's this for a Franc-helm or an Attic helm/Enigma type helm? 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=vortigernstudies>Vortigern Studies</A> at: 12/30/03 8:36 pm

Nathan Ross · 12-30-2003, 08:02 PM

Blimey, where did that come from?! 
 
No 'Frankhelm', but it does look 100% like some of the ones on the Constantine coins. Please tell me you haven't just created it on Photoshop.

**Robert Vermaat** · 12-30-2003, 11:44 PM

No I did not, scouts 'onour! (could have, though) 
It's from Zsolt Visy (2000): Von Augustus bis Attila - Leben am Ungarnischen Donaulimes, (Theiss verlag). A very nice little catalogue about Roman Hungary. It's carried as a back part of a parade helmet, dated 2nd-3rd c. AD. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

drsrob · 12-31-2003, 08:02 PM

It's also in Robinson. plate 381-383 on p. 128-129. and classed as Cavalry Sports type G, same as the well known Heddernheim Helmet. Greetings 
 
Rob Wolters

**Robert Vermaat** · 01-02-2004, 08:12 AM

Hi Rob, 
Of course I knew that. But, of course, 'classed as' does not mean 'was'. I mean, this may well have been a 'sports' helmet, but I used it as an example to show that helmets shaeped like this existed, and maybe similar-shaped helmets could have been worn in battle. 
 
Valete, 
Valerius/Robert

01-02-2004, 02:34 PM

..A happy saturnalia. And may the Gods leave us alone.. 
 
This type of helmet can be seen in many a sarcophagus from the late IInd C.A.D. onwards. Instead of trying to put it into the cavalry sports or any other category, I'd just call it a late etrusco corinthian. That is the only thing we are sure of.. 
It may have been fitted with either a full face mask, or with a single piece cheek-guard. 
Something I very rarely saw mentioned, by the way, is that this type of single piece cheek-guard helmet was also fitted with a trilobate face mask that was simply slipped inside the cheek-guard. Many have been found, but I still can't find one on the net. 
This helmet also reminds me of that Guttmann "double eagle" crested helmet we saw a while ago, although the latter was definitely a masked helmet. I'm working on a reconstruction --in drawing-- but I'm still at odds as to what kind of face mask I'll put on it. 
All in all, the more I see, the more I realize that sculptural representation of roman arms and armour is not as fancyful as some would like it to be.. 
But well, when I look at the Guttman "double eagle", or that one,... Or even the very fantastic Autun helmet, I wonder really how the sculptors could have made them fancier than they were.. 
Some of these pieces are actually so fancy that they're scary... 
Maybe we should introduce a new type: the "designer helmet"... 
Edited by: <A HREF=http://pub45.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://localhost:1094/Homesteads/_1750094854/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 1/2/04 3:46 pm

drsrob · 01-03-2004, 04:47 PM

Robert, I couldn't agree more! 
I was just showing that it wasn't a recent discovery, but already well known. Greetings 
 
Rob Wolters

09-03-2004, 12:54 PM

I only just came across this thread. As I'm the one who made the reconstruction referred to in the original post, I suppose I'm in a position to comment. 
 
Firstly, I don't think the Frankish helmet, and the pictures on the site that go with it, are of the same type as shown on the arch and the coins. The shape is just too different. 
 
However, there are a few arguments in favour of the "Frankhelm" (my term - I had to call it something!) having really existed. 
 
Firstly, the artist of St Gall (first pic on my site) shows these helmets from all kinds of angles, even a couple that have fallen off the head and are seen from inside. The various views are remarkably consistent. This is unlikely with mere copying of older illustrations. And other documents from St Gall from the same period show other helmets, of types that have been found in the archaeological record. 
 
Second, having worn the helmet in steel weapon combat for some years, I found the "inverted v" didnt really leave the face open any more than any other helmet. In fact, because the "V" is markedly forward of the face, it actually forms a good protection from an angled downward blow toward the face - the most likely type (no good against a stab, but then neither is a helmet with nasal). And morions were used for over a hundred years, with similar inverted "V's". If they hadn't worked, the morion would surely have fallen out of use. 
 
Third, the multiplicity of sources which show these helmets (not just the ones shown on the site) - often in combination with armour and equipment we know did exist - argue in favour of their actually having existed. 
 
That doesn't, of prove that they did exist, but I believe there's enough evidence there for it to be reasonably likely. 
 
However, if I were to make this helmet again, rather than a two-part helmet with the comb, the "V" and the "wings" at the back all part of the helmet halves, I would make it as a ridge helmet, with these pieces separate. So there would be a ridge, two skull-halves, and the "brim" (incorporating the "V" and the "wings". 
 
The contemporary pics often show a "button" at the point of the "V". I have no idea what that was, and didn't attempt to make it when I did the reconstruction.

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 09-03-2004, 04:35 PM

To my eyes, the helmet is reminiscent of the sallet helmets of the late middle ages. Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

09-03-2004, 11:11 PM

More like a morion, in my view.

Lucius Aurelius Metellus · 09-06-2004, 12:36 AM

Yes, now that you mention it, it does look more like a morion. Your reconstruction does look exactly like the drawings and sculptures, though. Lucius Aurelius Metellus, miles gregarius, Secunda Brittanica

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